Naming of files which hold multiple non consecutive TV Episodes

[darkside40 91]

Hi there,

what is the correct Naming for File which contain two non consecutive Episode of a TV series.

For example if i Name a File "Phines.and.Ferb.S03E59E62.mkv" Emby think that there are 4 Episodes in that one file which is not correct.

So how can i make Emby recognize that Files correct?

[Gilgamesh_48 948]

I do not think that is possible and this is the first time I have heard of media files holding two or more files that are not consecutive. The only way I can come up with for that to happen is for someone to created it that way but it is so counter intuitive that I doubt it is common enough for Emby to bother with. But there could be some compelling reason that has never occurred to me.

[MBSki 1027]

I see this a lot with kids shows. I think a lot of users split the file, but I just name it with 1 of the episode numbers, and the. I create a .strm file for the 2nd episode. The strm file points back to the first file, but it shows up as a different episode. It isn't elegant, but it works and I don't have to spend time splitting the file. 

[Luke 37246]

Hi, yes it’s currently not supported. It does come up and get asked about every once in a while.

[MBSki 1027]

33 minutes ago, Luke said:

Hi, yes it’s currently not supported. It does come up and get asked about every once in a while.

Have you ever investigated a way to implement it Luke? Is it possible?

[Luke 37246]

4 hours ago, MBSki said:

Have you ever investigated a way to implement it Luke? Is it possible?

Not yet but it’s possible for future updates. Thanks.

[darkside40 91]

To be honest i cannot believe that this is not supported because from a programmers view it is dead easy if you define a sane naming convention for it.

That problem drives me nuts for a week now.

First i renamed everything to production order just to see that Emby's TMDB Scraper does not support those alternative orders. It is a request for now 3 years:

Than i thought: okay grab the Metadata with another program like Kodi (their TMDB scraper is the only one i know supporting alternative orders) convert the NFO Files to a NFO Style that Emby can properly read via TMM and pump that into Emby, just to learn that Emby does not support multiple Episodes in nfo's. Also a known Problem for over 4 years:

Now i renamed everthing to airdate to find out that Emby cant even handle the easy task to handle non consecutive Episodes in a file. I bet if i would search i would find another multiple years old feature request thats got ignored.

So have i got any other chance getting the show into Emby apart from using STRM Files which is a quite ugly hack with some drawbacks?

[ebr 14959]

6 hours ago, darkside40 said:

from a programmers view it is dead easy

Hi.  Not if you consider all the implications.

For instance, how are items supposed to show in order?  How is playback supposed to progress in order?

My question would be, why are these non-consecutive episodes in a single file?  What is the advantage being gained from that?  Are they related in some way and, if so, should they be considered consecutive?

[MBSki 1027]

14 minutes ago, ebr said:

Hi.  Not if you consider all the implications.

For instance, how are items supposed to show in order?  How is playback supposed to progress in order?

My question would be, why are these non-consecutive episodes in a single file?  What is the advantage being gained from that?  Are they related in some way and, if so, should they be considered consecutive?

That's how they're streamed from the provider, and recorded with DVR or PlayOn. You can split them but it's another step after recording.

[ebr 14959]

Just now, MBSki said:

That's how they're streamed from the provider, and recorded with DVR or PlayOn. You can split them but it's another step after recording.

So you are saying for shows that are typically 15 minutes in duration (like I think some of my kids shows were when they were younger) the TV channel may show two random episodes as one "program" listing in the guide? 

 

[MBSki 1027]

9 minutes ago, ebr said:

So you are saying for shows that are typically 15 minutes in duration (like I think some of my kids shows were when they were younger) the TV channel may show two random episodes as one "program" listing in the guide? 

 

Yes, exactly. It's really aggravating, but it is how it is.

[ebr 14959]

Okay, so, if we were to support such a naming convention (non-consecutive episodes in one file) then we could also assume that the order of the episodes for this particular series is unimportant, correct?  Because for both display and playback, it would not be possible to execute either in the correct episode number order.

[MBSki 1027]

7 minutes ago, ebr said:

Okay, so, if we were to support such a naming convention (non-consecutive episodes in one file) then we could also assume that the order of the episodes for this particular series is unimportant, correct?  Because for both display and playback, it would not be possible to execute either in the correct episode number order.

Well, I guess that's where it gets tricky. At a minimum, I need the GUI to show the episode in the right order. So if I have a video that has episode 1 and episode 4, I need it to show that same video as episode 1 and episode 4, with episode 2 and 3 from a different video in between. 

As far as playback is concerned, no, I don't need playback to jump from episode 1, pause before episode 4, jump to episode 2, 3 then back to the mid point on episode 4. That would be a nightmare. There's no way to identify when the other episode begins. 

The only nice to have would be marking both episodes played if the entire video is played. Not sure how this could be done either, which is why I say it's a nice to have.

[darkside40 91]

53 minutes ago, ebr said:

Okay, so, if we were to support such a naming convention (non-consecutive episodes in one file) then we could also assume that the order of the episodes for this particular series is unimportant, correct?  Because for both display and playback, it would not be possible to execute either in the correct episode number order.

We wouldnt have this discussion if the TMDB Scraper would implement the alternative orders they feature for years. That would be the easiest solution for that problem.

Just have a look at it: https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/1877-phineas-and-ferb/episode_groups

Than the episodes in the file would be in the, for Emby, correct consecutive Order.

An yes the Show is broadcasted in that way in German Television. Production Order with two Episodes in one File only with some single Episode "Specials" in between.

[MBSki 1027]

2 minutes ago, darkside40 said:

We wouldnt have this discussion if the TMDB Scraper would implement the alternative orders they feature for years. That would be the easiest solution for that problem.

Just have a look at it: https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/1877-phineas-and-ferb/episode_groups

Than the episodes in the file would be in the, for Emby, correct consecutive Order.

So would this mean we could set our own order in Emby? I'm not sure how that helps. If the episodes broadcast are in the wrong order, I don't really want to lock in the wrong order in Emby.

[darkside40 91]

You dont need a own order in that case. The whole mess like "Phines.and.Ferb.S03E59E62.mkv" is only neccessary because i tranlated that production order to the aired order which the Emby TMDB scraper supports. In production order that would be something like "Phines.and.Ferb.S03E60E61.mkv". But i didnt think that the Emby system would be so unflexible that it cant handle non consecutive orders.

The show is not broadcasted in the wrong order but in an other order. The production order also is the one that the IMDB uses. But Emby cant Scrape from there.

Nevertheless the cleanest solution would be the TMDB Scraper gets the orders which are available for a show and lets you choose which one to use in the metadata editor per show.

2 hours ago, ebr said:

Hi.  Not if you consider all the implications.

For instance, how are items supposed to show in order?  How is playback supposed to progress in order?

 

If the File is named:  "Phines.and.Ferb.S03E59E62.mkv" ist should be display as a multiple episode menu point names for example: 62- This is your backstory, 59- Where Perry.

About the playback: Most of the People will simply watch the whole file. I dont think there is any need to make it unneccesary complicated.

Edited July 19, 2023 by darkside40

[MBSki 1027]

But multi episode videos ARE broadcast or provided in the wrong order. Sometimes there are new episodes with repeats or random repeats together. There's no rhyme or reason to it.

[darkside40 91]

In this case it makes perfectly sense, ne repeats etc. It is just another way to sort it. So it should be supported.

There are enough people voting for it since 2020. Kodis scraper has that feature for nearly 5 years

[MBSki 1027]

3 minutes ago, darkside40 said:

In this case it makes perfectly sense, ne repeats etc. It is just another way to sort it. So it should be supported.

There are enough people voting for it since 2020. Kodis scraper has that feature for nearly 5 years

I do want to sort it by the official order of the episodes though, which is why I prefer to have a multi episode file be read as multi, non continuous episodes.

[darkside40 91]

So what is the "official" order? Airdate? DVD? Production?

Especially with Kids shows like Phineas and Ferb it does not matter because the Episodes do not build on each other.

Nevertheless, till now have no other chance than living with totally wrong metadata, or i have to splitt 130+ files into single episodes.

[MBSki 1027]

Airdate or DVD IMO. 

Agree with splitting. Too much of a headache.

[darkside40 91]

But if there are other options like in the TMDB, why not use it.

For many people also the streaming order gets more important which is also not always the same like the airdate.

TVDB and TMDB support that, so Emby should do. But as the scrapers seem not to be open source the Emby Devs have to deal with it, and havent done in the past three years.

Oh, wait i have to correct myself, that feature was already requested in 2018.

[ebr 14959]

49 minutes ago, darkside40 said:

it does not matter because the Episodes do not build on each other.

Right, so that means my assumption was correct - we don't have to worry about them showing or playing out of order because order is not important.

4 hours ago, ebr said:

then we could also assume that the order of the episodes for this particular series is unimportant,

 

[MBSki 1027]

26 minutes ago, darkside40 said:

TVDB and TMDB support that, so Emby should do. But as the scrapers seem not to be open source the Emby Devs have to deal with it, and havent done in the past three years.

Yea, I believe the updated API for TVDB was added recently, but now the enhancements to take advantage of the API need to be added.

[MBSki 1027]

1 minute ago, ebr said:

Right, so that means my assumption was correct - we don't have to worry about them showing or playing out of order because order is not important.

Order for playing isn't important, but order for displaying is important.