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Emby doesn't respect folder location like 4.5.4.0


gokuz

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@gokuz  @pünktchen in his earlier test found the same thing I had been saying that any movement of files with the NFO isn't going to change the season as it will be loaded using the season/episode number from the NFO as well as other meta-data.

Actually if that didn't work we would have a huge problem as the NFO file is treated as a meta-data supplier. There probably is "quirks" in the way both 4.5 and 4.6 load initial media files (without NFO) if loaded in the "wrong" folder from what would be expected looked at the SOXE0X file name or meta-data provider the initial load of info will come from.

But here is the important part. Regardless of which version of the server currently running, if you want the files to load in specific order or season you can adjust this with the season and episode meta-data either in the NFO before loading or after with the meta-data editor in Emby which will also update the NFO.

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gokuz
34 minutes ago, pünktchen said:

Because you want it to be shown under season 1, after the last episode???!!!

I don't need to change nfo at all in 4.5.4.0. That's my point.

Something broke in 4.6.x.x.

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gokuz
20 minutes ago, cayars said:

@gokuz  @pünktchen in his earlier test found the same thing I had been saying that any movement of files with the NFO isn't going to change the season as it will be loaded using the season/episode number from the NFO as well as other meta-data.

Actually if that didn't work we would have a huge problem as the NFO file is treated as a meta-data supplier. There probably is "quirks" in the way both 4.5 and 4.6 load initial media files (without NFO) if loaded in the "wrong" folder from what would be expected looked at the SOXE0X file name or meta-data provider the initial load of info will come from.

But here is the important part. Regardless of which version of the server currently running, if you want the files to load in specific order or season you can adjust this with the season and episode meta-data either in the NFO before loading or after with the meta-data editor in Emby which will also update the NFO.

Read the title. I'm not worried about nfo getting proper metadata.

 

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17 minutes ago, gokuz said:

Read the title. I'm not worried about nfo getting proper metadata.

 

The rest of us are!

The NFO file should contain the information used during import that has all the info used to display the episode including what season/episode it is. It should directly match the season/episode that's also in the database for that episode as well once loaded.

Again the main reason to use season folders is to help with identification of the episode.  You don't actually need the season folders and could just load everything into the Series/Show folder (flat folder setup).  Once scanned in, the meta-data in the database is what should determine what season any episode shows up in. That's the design anyway.

Any discrepancy to this is what we need to figure out. Obviously looking at what's stored in the database is one of the best places to look to see what's going on. Both you and @Happy2Play have found discrepancies upon initial loading and no one doubts or thinks that's not the case.

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10 hours ago, Happy2Play said:

I don't see a difference in the nfo made when in Season 1 folder or moved from Season 2 folder, just that the UI shows the episode in both seasons when improperly placed.

One set of files showing in 2 locations?  Did you do a full scan after moving the files?

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gokuz
7 minutes ago, cayars said:

One set of files showing in 2 locations?  Did you do a full scan after moving the files?

Did you even test 4.5.4.0 like you said?

@Happy2Playhappily showed proof of his testing, no pun intended, which I appreciate. You however, just speculate stuff.

He also confirmed 4.5.4.0 acts differently ,

Season 1 shows S01E01-S01E07,S02E01,S02E02,S02E03,S02E04,S02E05,S02E06

Season 2 shows S02E07-S02E13.

 

Please do not speculate anymore. Do the test if you really want to know.

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Hi.  You are giving the system conflicting information.  Just like HAL, it isn't surprising to me that it would behave unpredictably :).

That really is the bottom line here.  Your file structure says one thing and  your metadata says something else.  Our intention has always been that local metadata should be king.  Local images always trump any other source and information in an NFO should too.

If the previous version wasn't behaving this way, then that was the bug I'm afraid.

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Besides what ebr just mentioned Emby does have the facility to do what you want by adjusting the meta-data in the NFO or using the meta-data editor.  You should be able to change the season and episode numbers to make Emby display these episodes anyway you want.  This should work in 4.5, 4.6 and any version that is released in the future as that's the design and proper way to influence position of episodes (if needed).

If Emby doesn't display the episodes properly based on this meta-data then that's something that indeed would be a bug and needs looking at.

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gokuz
18 minutes ago, ebr said:

Hi.  You are giving the system conflicting information.  Just like HAL, it isn't surprising to me that it would behave unpredictably :).

That really is the bottom line here.  Your file structure says one thing and  your metadata says something else.  Our intention has always been that local metadata should be king.  Local images always trump any other source and information in an NFO should too.

If the previous version wasn't behaving this way, then that was the bug I'm afraid.

So you're saying emby now officially supports "no folders policy"?

e.g. put everything (900 episodes) into Season 1 folder with nfo/images.

 

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1 minute ago, gokuz said:

e.g. put everything (900 episodes) into Season 1 folder with nfo/images.

That wouldn't be a "no folders" policy, that would be a "conflicting folders" policy :).  Why would you put seasons 2, 3 etc in a folder labeled "Season 1"?

However, we do support TV series without season folders at all.

Quote

\TV
     \Seinfeld (1989)
        Seinfeld S01E01.mp4
        Seinfeld S01E02.mp4 
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gokuz
4 minutes ago, ebr said:

That wouldn't be a "no folders" policy, that would be a "conflicting folders" policy :).  Why would you put seasons 2, 3 etc in a folder labeled "Season 1"?

However, we do support TV series without season folders at all.

 

28 minutes ago, ebr said:

Our intention has always been that local metadata should be king.  Local images always trump any other source and information in an NFO should too.

You're kinda contradicting yourself here. So you're saying regardless of folder, NFO is king. So I can place my episodes anywhere right?

In 4.5.4.0, it respects folder, if I place S03E10 in Season 1 folder with mkv/NFO/images, it shows in ONLY in Season 1

In 4.6.x.x, it disregards folder, if I place S03E10 in Season 1 folder with mkv/NFO/images, it shows in both Season 1 AND Season 3

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Hi.  I don't believe I'm contradicting anything.  We are moving closer and closer to where physical organization of media doesn't matter.  We are not completely there yet - especially with TV but using differing conventions in differing ways (one convention saying one thing while another says something else) is likely to create unpredictable results  in any case.

With music, we have made it completely to the case where physical organization does not matter.  Tags are read from the music and display is driven by that.  We are inching there in other areas as well.

The bottom line is you are giving mixed signals to the system by using two conventions for providing data with different data (one convention says one season and the other convention says another).  The NFO should be the definitive source in this situation.

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gokuz
51 minutes ago, ebr said:

The bottom line is you are giving mixed signals to the system by using two conventions for providing data with different data (one convention says one season and the other convention says another).  The NFO should be the definitive source in this situation.

I'm not asking for much really. Its not a new request you need to get out of thin air.

Its in 4.5.4.0. 

Hope you can fix it.

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Seems like we are going in circles. We are trying to make it clear we do not want folder structure to dictate position and we are trying to move away from this entirely to only use meta-data.  This meta-data can come from a 3rd party provider, can be read from a NFO or can be edited directly in the database.  These methods are always in agreement with each other as NFO are optional but when active get written when you make database changes to meta-data.  They take precedence over other methods of identification. This makes the local meta-data king.

We really do not want it's folder/location to have any bearing on this past the ID stage if at all possible.  Ideally we want you to be able to pickup your media and move it, but it will load the same exact way no matter where it's at if part of the same library type.

You could wipe your library and recreate it and it will load exactly the same.  You can pick up media from one file server and move it to a NAS or from a NAS to something like Google Drive and the same local meta-data written in the NFO file is going to dictate what it is as well as a lot of the info about the media.  These types of things are important for people using remotely mounted media where scanning takes place across the Internet.  It's much faster to read a text file then have to fetch/analyze the media.

So there are lots of reasons why we don't want the media tied to a folder or directory and each new release will likely move us further from any folder dependency when at all possible.
4.6 just did this for music as well as collection.  This simplifies their use once migrated and stops issues we've had in the past with folder locations causing issues. 

With music if you don't like how Emby displays the data you edit the tracks so it has the proper information and then Emby will use that.  No more having to worry about what folder it's in of having multiple albums show up because tracks are split between folders.  Collections became virtual or completely meta-data driven as well.  This means now that collections won't break when you move a movie or part of the collection like it used to.

These types of folder based things used to cause support issues that we are slowly getting rid of. So hopefully it's clear we don't want folder path to play into their location because we already provide an elegant way to control this via meta-data. This is the supported method to change season/episode order and will be tested in future updates to make sure this functionality is intact. Meanwhile folder location will play less and less role.

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gokuz
1 hour ago, cayars said:

Seems like we are going in circles. We are trying to make it clear we do not want folder structure to dictate position and we are trying to move away from this entirely to only use meta-data.  This meta-data can come from a 3rd party provider, can be read from a NFO or can be edited directly in the database.  These methods are always in agreement with each other as NFO are optional but when active get written when you make database changes to meta-data.  They take precedence over other methods of identification. This makes the local meta-data king.

We really do not want it's folder/location to have any bearing on this past the ID stage if at all possible.  Ideally we want you to be able to pickup your media and move it, but it will load the same exact way no matter where it's at if part of the same library type.

You could wipe your library and recreate it and it will load exactly the same.  You can pick up media from one file server and move it to a NAS or from a NAS to something like Google Drive and the same local meta-data written in the NFO file is going to dictate what it is as well as a lot of the info about the media.  These types of things are important for people using remotely mounted media where scanning takes place across the Internet.  It's much faster to read a text file then have to fetch/analyze the media.

So there are lots of reasons why we don't want the media tied to a folder or directory and each new release will likely move us further from any folder dependency when at all possible.
4.6 just did this for music as well as collection.  This simplifies their use once migrated and stops issues we've had in the past with folder locations causing issues. 

With music if you don't like how Emby displays the data you edit the tracks so it has the proper information and then Emby will use that.  No more having to worry about what folder it's in of having multiple albums show up because tracks are split between folders.  Collections became virtual or completely meta-data driven as well.  This means now that collections won't break when you move a movie or part of the collection like it used to.

These types of folder based things used to cause support issues that we are slowly getting rid of. So hopefully it's clear we don't want folder path to play into their location because we already provide an elegant way to control this via meta-data. This is the supported method to change season/episode order and will be tested in future updates to make sure this functionality is intact. Meanwhile folder location will play less and less role.

So you're saying I can put 900 episodes (mkv/nfo/images) into 1 folder?

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Yes if you do it per our TV NAMING guide found here:
https://support.emby.media/support/solutions/articles/44001159110-tv-naming

If you find something documented in our KB articles like the above then we try to test these different method between server versions/upgrades.  If something is documented but then doesn't work correctly we try hard to fix it quickly because it should work, else we wouldn't have documented it to work that way. 

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gokuz
18 minutes ago, cayars said:

Yes if you do it per our TV NAMING guide found here:
https://support.emby.media/support/solutions/articles/44001159110-tv-naming

If you find something documented in our KB articles like the above then we try to test these different method between server versions/upgrades.  If something is documented but then doesn't work correctly we try hard to fix it quickly because it should work, else we wouldn't have documented it to work that way. 

 

1 hour ago, cayars said:

We are trying to make it clear we do not want folder structure to dictate position and we are trying to move away from this entirely to only use meta-data.

Wait, you literally said folder/directories doesn't matter. So why do I need to follow this guide if folders are not needed like you said.

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Sorry, but that is not what was said. Here's the moral of this thread. 

Follow what is in our guides and what works in this version of software, will work in the next version. 
If you want to change order or season of episodes, edit the metadata. That's why we allow you to edit it.

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gokuz
6 hours ago, cayars said:

Sorry, but that is not what was said. Here's the moral of this thread. 

Follow what is in our guides and what works in this version of software, will work in the next version. 
If you want to change order or season of episodes, edit the metadata. That's why we allow you to edit it.

I quoted you.

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Go back and read what you quoted.  Also read the TV Naming guide which is part of what you quoted so you understand it. There is nothing contradicting in the two things you quoted. They are complementing in fact.

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Gilgamesh_48

Please, everyone; Keep this thread going. I have not had so much fun reading a pretty polite thread in years.

It seems that there are tow or three people discussing quite different issues and they seem to agree when they disagree and disagree when they seem to agree.

My 1.5 cents: (Not worth 2 cents)
There is a difference in the handling of improperly structured files and directories between 4.5.4.0 and 4.6.x.x
It has been clearly stated by the people that are most in the know that the behavior in 4.5.4.0 was wrong, hence the way it worked was a bug and that was fixed in 4.6.x.x.

If anyone cannot accept that then they either need to move to another media manager or write their own that behaves exactly as they want.

One more thing, it may have already been explained but I did not see it, why wound anyone want season 2 episodes to appear under season 1? Also Why does it matter?

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gokuz
1 minute ago, Gilgamesh_48 said:

Please, everyone; Keep this thread going. I have not had so much fun reading a pretty polite thread in years.

It seems that there are tow or three people discussing quite different issues and they seem to agree when they disagree and disagree when they seem to agree.

My 1.5 cents: (Not worth 2 cents)
There is a difference in the handling of improperly structured files and directories between 4.5.4.0 and 4.6.x.x
It has been clearly stated by the people that are most in the know that the behavior in 4.5.4.0 was wrong, hence the way it worked was a bug and that was fixed in 4.6.x.x.

If anyone cannot accept that then they either need to move to another media manager or write their own that behaves exactly as they want.

One more thing, it may have already been explained but I did not see it, why wound anyone want season 2 episodes to appear under season 1? Also Why does it matter?

I gave reasons for it in the first page. The gist of it, split it up however I feel is best. 

 

At around 900 episodes, i chose it to split in years, 28 seasons, 1 season per year

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gokuz
3 minutes ago, Gilgamesh_48 said:

Please, everyone; Keep this thread going. I have not had so much fun reading a pretty polite thread in years.

It seems that there are tow or three people discussing quite different issues and they seem to agree when they disagree and disagree when they seem to agree.

My 1.5 cents: (Not worth 2 cents)
There is a difference in the handling of improperly structured files and directories between 4.5.4.0 and 4.6.x.x
It has been clearly stated by the people that are most in the know that the behavior in 4.5.4.0 was wrong, hence the way it worked was a bug and that was fixed in 4.6.x.x.

If anyone cannot accept that then they either need to move to another media manager or write their own that behaves exactly as they want.

One more thing, it may have already been explained but I did not see it, why wound anyone want season 2 episodes to appear under season 1? Also Why does it matter?

Also your argument is not valid. Look at the other post I made.

 

All the naysayers says I did it wrong like 3 pages full. But then @luke saved the day and fixed it.

 

 

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Gilgamesh_48
Just now, gokuz said:

I gave reasons for it in the first page. The gist of it, split it up however I feel is best. 

 

At around 900 episodes, i chose it to split in years, 28 seasons, 1 season per year

So you are saying that your way is best and everyone should put up with a bug so you can do it your way? But, if you want to do it your way no matter what, just use an "Other videos" type of library and fill in all the metadata manually.

There are things I did that made since to me but I, some time ago, decided to standardize on the simplest structure and naming that worked for Plex and Emby. That means that I have to spend very little time obsessing over my library.

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gokuz
15 minutes ago, Gilgamesh_48 said:

So you are saying that your way is best and everyone should put up with a bug so you can do it your way? But, if you want to do it your way no matter what, just use an "Other videos" type of library and fill in all the metadata manually.

There are things I did that made since to me but I, some time ago, decided to standardize on the simplest structure and naming that worked for Plex and Emby. That means that I have to spend very little time obsessing over my library.

There's literally no downside of it by fixing it. Please fix 4.6.x.x.

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