Building a new Server

[archiel 2]

I am looking for some advice on building my next server.

I am running Emby Server on a Windows 10 machine with an i7 3770 @ 3.40GHz Ivy Bridge.  This is fine for home use as everything is Direct Play but struggles if we want to access it remotely, particularly for HEVC content or higher bitrate H264 as the transcoding pushes the CPU to its limits, lower bitrate H264 (1,024k or less) is fine.  Access (away from home) is via Nvidia TV Shield 2019, iPads and phones (running Android 9 and up).  

I am looking to build a new server and have seen very positive reports on the Rocket Lake i5 11400 and as this has a built in GPU it would cut down on components.  Typically the server runs 1-2 items at a time and never more than 4.  I will probably start adding HDR content in due course.

Is the Coffee Lake liable to be able to handle the transcoding duties or do I need to look at a Ryzen CPU and/or adding a dedicated GPU.   Also is there any substantial advantage is moving to Linux (Ubuntu) instead of staying with Windows?

Thank you.  Archiel

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cptlores 23]

Get a dedicated GPU (Nvidia is probably the safest bet) for the video transcoding, and there is no need to upgrade your server any further.

The main advantage with moving to Linux is that there is less windows stuff like forced updates and background services sucking resources to worry about.

Edited May 13, 2021 by cptlores

[pwhodges 1527]

I have the same cpu, but with a GTX 1050 Ti display card (I even found a fanless one) which handles transcoding quite well (for my purposes, at least).  Even at currently inflated GPU prices that might be a lot cheaper than building a whole new systems, tempting though that might be.

Paul

(PS:  I'm also running Windows 10.  As a retired systems admin person, I can assure you that the idea that Windows background processes are sucking resources is a complete myth.  Just like background services in Linux, they are simply paused and waiting for something to do.  As for updates, they are recommended for Linux systems as well.)

Edited May 13, 2021 by pwhodges

[Carlo 4330]

I'm running a 10 year old original i7 (no quicksync) with an Nvidia 1650 (turing) GPU and it does everything I need and want. I have the card unlocked.

I can do several 4K HDR to 1080 SDR tone map transcode or a dozen or more normal transcodes without the CPU breaking a sweat.

So I too agree with others to upgrade by way of GPU purchase as your machine is otherwise just fine.

[Sammy 735]

I'll chime in.. start with the highest level nVidia GPU you can afford but my unlocked GTX 1060 6Gb with a Ryzen 3700x chews up and spits out all transcoding needs. It'll do four simultaneous Handbrake conversions from ts to HEVC on half the cores with headroom for Emby on the fly transcoding. 

[Carlo 4330]

Decent CPU and storage with good/great GPU seems to be the theme here that most people find.

[rbjtech 4257]

Dedicated Nvidia GPU is a reasonable answer but of course, getting hold of even an older generation GPU is all but impossible or extremely expensive.

To answer the OP's question - the iGPU of your current CPU does not fully support hevc and for Quicksync to work with hevc (decode and encode) you need at least the Skylake generation. 

Buying a new system just for the iGPU is a valid option and probably for 1080p streams, the best option.  The Rocket Lake (11th Gen) has an iGPU that is more than capable of transcoding multiple 1080p hevc streams (15-20) - however - many (including myself) see Rocket Lake as a 'step gap' until Alder Lake comes out at the end of this year - which brings lower TDP and more power efficiency. 

That said, buying the new CPU, motherboard and maybe even memory (if you can't re-use from your old system) is still cheaper than buying the graphics card option (crazy!) so it may be a great option - plus of course you'll be getting the CPU upgrade as a bonus.

Have a look here - it's a comparison on the older Gen 9/10 iGPU's vs the Gen 11 (HD 750) - in summary, for 1080p they are fantastic, for high bitrate 4K - not so good vs Nvidia.  

Also this is a P**x comparison - Emby's transcoding/HDR/Tonemap performance is far better than the current P**x implementation ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSLW1Plzjj8

  

Edited May 14, 2021 by rbjtech

[BAlGaInTl 279]

3 hours ago, rbjtech said:

Dedicated Nvidia GPU is a reasonable answer but of course, getting hold of even an older generation GPU is all but impossible or extremely expensive.

 

My solution to this was to get a low end NVIDIA Quadro P620 card.  It's essentially the same chipset as the 1050, but with only 2GB ram.  They don't have the same demand on them as the gaming cards.  You can't really game with them, and they aren't very useful for mining.  They do work quite well for NVENC though if you don't need to do a lot of simultaneous transcodes.

I went with a brand new system pull from eBay.  It cost me $144 shipped to my door which is pretty reasonable for a new card.  I think you can still get them for <$200 easily.

 

 

[Carlo 4330]

And to think I purchased a turing card 1650 back in October for < $170.

Talk about supply and demand pricing.

[Q-Droid 641]

There is a tendency to underestimate the capabilities of Intel iGPUs for media and overestimate the capabilities of NVidia gaming GPUs.

Compare the video posted by @rbjtech which I think shortchanged the iGPU with the link below.

https://forums.unraid.net/topic/97593-intel-i3-8100-with-uhd630-the-plex-transcoding-beast/

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Q-Droid

[rbjtech 4257]

32 minutes ago, BAlGaInTl said:

My solution to this was to get a low end NVIDIA Quadro P620 card.  It's essentially the same chipset as the 1050, but with only 2GB ram.  They don't have the same demand on them as the gaming cards.  You can't really game with them, and they aren't very useful for mining.  They do work quite well for NVENC though if you don't need to do a lot of simultaneous transcodes.

I went with a brand new system pull from eBay.  It cost me $144 shipped to my door which is pretty reasonable for a new card.  I think you can still get them for <$200 easily.

 

 

This is certainly another option - it can do hevc fine but is very memory limited - if it had 4Gb, it would be a great option.  4K streams will be limited to 2, max 3.

For the same price (or thereabouts) you can get a new 11400 (HD730) or 11500 (HD750) that is not memory limited, does AV1 decode and should be reasonably power efficient.   

If it were me, and needed an upgrade today, I'd go for the 11500 - as it has the higher spec iGPU (32 EU's in the HD750 vs 24 EU's in the HD730)

 

[Sammy 735]

1 hour ago, cayars said:

And to think I purchased a turing card 1650 back in October for < $170.

Talk about supply and demand pricing.

Paid $80 for mine used from a guy that used to be on here that you probably know.

[BAlGaInTl 279]

1 hour ago, rbjtech said:

This is certainly another option - it can do hevc fine but is very memory limited - if it had 4Gb, it would be a great option.  4K streams will be limited to 2, max 3.

For the same price (or thereabouts) you can get a new 11400 (HD730) or 11500 (HD750) that is not memory limited, does AV1 decode and should be reasonably power efficient.   

If it were me, and needed an upgrade today, I'd go for the 11500 - as it has the higher spec iGPU (32 EU's in the HD750 vs 24 EU's in the HD730)

 

That's very true...

But other than transcoding, my server (Xeon E3-1270) was handling everything just fine.  Technically... it was handling that fine too, but there were times when I was trying to do something on the server and the transcoding would eat up most of my CPU cycles.

I considered upgrading the whole server... but the card was MUCH cheaper than replacing CPU, MB, and RAM.  Especially considering that I'm running server class hardware.  

If I were just building new, I would definitely consider an Intel iGPU.  But can you do that and still take advantage of server grade hardware?  Specifically ECC?

[rbjtech 4257]

38 minutes ago, Sammy said:

Paid $80 for mine used from a guy that used to be on here that you probably know.

It's worth 2 or 3x that now ... 

[Q-Droid 641]

52 minutes ago, BAlGaInTl said:

If I were just building new, I would definitely consider an Intel iGPU.  But can you do that and still take advantage of server grade hardware?  Specifically ECC?

 

Xeons are available with graphics. 

 

[archiel 2]

Thank you to everyone for a lot of helpful advice.  

My thinking is still to go with the  i11400  (or 11500) as my existing motherboard is now over 8 years old (and the CPU is no spring chicken) and while the both may go on for years to come, it seems to be a reasonable time for an upgrade.  Also I really do not the current pricing for even a modest dedicated GPU (I have a GTX 1060 6GB in another machine that was sub-£150 just 18 months ago).  Yes I will need a new motherboard and memory, but I can still re use the existing kit for another project (possibly an OPNsense firewall, which i have been considering for  a while).

Waiting for Alder Lake seems like an idea, except that will come with a new generation of chipsets and motherboards and that will further push up the costs and anyway, I would like the new setup running by the end of July.

[Chillout 85]

Have you tried playing with the encoding settings? 

I use FAST/CRF19 and my i7-3770 doesn't have any issues with transcoding at least three (3) H264 files at the same time with throttling and hardware acceleration disabled.  I haven't tried to figure out what that ceiling is but the encoder quality is pretty darn good with those settings. 

I'm trying hard for an excuse to upgrade to a 16-core ThreadRipper Pro but the 10 year old trusty 3770 keeps chugging along like Thomas the train engine... maybe when H265 is the new norm.

 

 

 

.

[Sammy 735]

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