Multi-genre Filter?

[GrimReaper 3269]

WAF alert:

How does one filter by multiple genres and/or tags (seeing @chef's excellent progress in Automated Tagging plugin, wouldn't mind dive into that, even) so the Queen can be presented with all 'Romance, Comedy' but not 'Comedy, Action' or 'Comedy, Sports' or 'Romance, Action', because "scrolling is just so bothersome"?

I haven't found a way so any input would be welcomed. 

Filter dropdown chooser allows for only single genre/tag/other, but even if multiple were selectable, wouldn't then ALL items with either of those show? Without introducing operators, I don't see it feasible. Can we at least have the Search field support AND OR NOT operators, with latest tabbed search results it doesn't seem like an enormous stretch? 

Thanks. 

[ebr 14903]

Right, as you surmised, this gets very complex very quickly.  To the point where the end user can get lost trying to understand exactly what they are asking for - especially when that user is grandma . 

Allowing you to select multiples is on the roadmap (actually, already possible in Android TV) but the extra step of defining whether it is ANDed or ORed isn't there and becomes so complicated that its usefulness may be somewhat limited (as it is actually a bit of a mind-jump to just fully understand exactly which operator should be used, especially with multiple combinations).

[GrimReaper 3269]

I just wish it was grandma, she wouldn't suck my blood on a straw but go with whatever I set-up.

Yeah, I get you, it is kinda can of worms, but as my initial (and oh so mistakenly expressed) reaction was: "Wtf, how many RomComs could there be anyway, 20-30-50 in total?", I was profoundly enlightened and nowdays I can proudly call myself Hallmark Productions connoisseur.

[Luke 37005]

You'll be able to multi-select filter in the upcoming Emby Server 4.6 release. Thanks.

[GrimReaper 3269]

Well, here's hoping that at some point in unforseeable future, a mutually-exclusive checkboxes for OR and AND (defaulting to OR, of course) will find their way into filter/search dialogs. 

Edit: At least applicable within same property. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by GrimReaper
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[Happy2Play 8241]

These are available via filters.  Or am I missing something?

[GrimReaper 3269]

18 minutes ago, Happy2Play said:

These are available via filters.  Or am I missing something?

Well I don't see them? 

Edit: Maybe I wasn't clear enough: checkboxes for conditional logical operators AND and OR, to be selected as needed. Currently, all filters are ORed. I have need for them to be ANDed occasionally (in Genre and Tag property). I won't even go as far as NOT, that would be excessive (although also useful). 

Edited September 20, 2021 by GrimReaper
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[Happy2Play 8241]

I guess I will have to add more tags but Action/Adventure is both genres, then doing tags shortens the list even more so everything with the combination of all variables applied. 

[Happy2Play 8241]

I get all media that fits these filters

So all Action that either of these tag and same for Comedy.

[GrimReaper 3269]

I have thousands upon thousands of tags, still not all combinations covered. Likewise for Genres, I have basic combos tagged, and STILL wife comes up with the combo that no sane person would ever think of. 

 

[GrimReaper 3269]

All that extra work could be spared by an extra checkbox, then you can combine everything in the UI as you see fit. 

[GrimReaper 3269]

35 minutes ago, Happy2Play said:

I get all media that fits these filters

So all Action that either of these tag and same for Comedy.

Again, I don't think you understood me. That is Action OR Comedy, returns ALL Action and ALL Comedy movies, as you said yourself also. There is no way to filter only for Action Comedies (or God forbid, Action Comedy but not SF ). I need Action AND Comedy, so instead of getting 2000 results (1950 of which are irrelevant) I get 50 (those are random, just an example). 

 

https://apus.libanswers.com/faq/2310

 

I've made few two-genre combos as a new genres, but it is nowhere near enough (aside that it is extremely long and tedious process, literally one by one movie). 

Edited September 20, 2021 by GrimReaper
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[GrimReaper 3269]

2 hours ago, Happy2Play said:

so everything with the combination of all variables applied.

No, that is what would be preferable in certain (most) scenarios and what the request was for, everything with combination of variables - currently you get everything with either variable applied (within same property). 

Edit: Tbh I'm not clear why is it OR by default when using same Genre property (on some properties it does make sense, like Ratings; on some it can be either, like Tags, depending on usage-scenario): you can just as easily filter Action and Comedy separately, this is just listing them all together, which isn't exceptionally (or at all, depending how you look at it) useful. So you have 3 ways to list ALL items of a genre: no filter, single filter on that genre or multi-genre filter - they all present same list of movies in that genre: all of them. In the meantime, there is absolutely no way to narrow that down and filter for specific genre combination, not even common double-genre, let alone triple. Huh. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by GrimReaper
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[ebr 14903]

I'm sure we need to find a way to improve this but it can get very complicated very fast with multiple levels of ANDing and ORing.  Pretty quickly, you'd also need a way to add parenthetical expressions and, at that point, it just gets too complex to be usable by most.

[GrimReaper 3269]

3 hours ago, ebr said:

I'm sure we need to find a way to improve this but it can get very complicated very fast with multiple levels of ANDing and ORing.  Pretty quickly, you'd also need a way to add parenthetical expressions and, at that point, it just gets too complex to be usable by most.

I understand, hence I've asked only for a "switch" on properties where it makes sense, Genres and Tags being most prominent of those, anything further would be over-complicating it which would likely result in having a counter-effect very quickly, and that is not in anyone's interest. On the other hand, filter that presents 2000 items down from 6000 really ain't useful nor helpful. So, here's hoping that a way can be found to improve on that, as you've said it yourself.

Thanks. 

[wordlover 102]

In Plex (which I have been using until discovering Emby) all combo genres are listed separately (jazz / jazz, bebop / jazz, bebop, piano) , which makes for a very long list but which does make it possible to tick all the desired individual boxes to create the screen for just the music you want to select.

Some possible ideas for Emby:

1. have a field at the top of the selection box that is toggled to either AND or OR, and then we can check whichever genres make up the Venn diagram we are seeking (a bit like "Smart Views" in the old Winamp) 

2. have the combo genres that the server finds in the Library appear at the bottom of the list of individual genres:

bebop

jazz

piano

jazz, bebop

jazz, bebop, piano

 

 

[Luke 37005]

Hi, yes we can make these filters more robust in future updates. Thanks.

[user24 78]

I realise that this is an older topic, but it’s very interesting all the same...

Yes, I agree that AND, OR and NOT logic structures can get very complex very quickly (I learnt, and quickly forgot most of it, quite some time ago in electronics engineering classes). While the casual user is possibly not going to understand it greatly (and likely doesn’t want or need to), some of this AND/OR logic is already built-in to Emby’s filtering UI, that is used by all right now, without people even knowing. Perhaps it just needs extending a little bit...?

I’ll use Music Genres and Music Tags to explain my thoughts further, but this would also apply to other libraries and other filtering options (e.g. Movies, Year...)

My filtering example is to find all Music Albums that are only Blues AND Rock AND CD AND United States. (This is two Genres and two Tags.) With current filtering, the best that I can select from right now is one (Genre OR multi-grouping) AND one (Tag OR multi-grouping) = (Blues OR Rock) AND (CD OR United States):

So, the OR function is already built-in to the multi-selection options now available (within each filter group) and shown using / across the page. The AND function is already built-in (through all filter groups) working down the page. While the AND function is not explicitly shown, people understand how the filtering works and/or learn it very quickly. The filters not used remain in the default state of Any (e.g. Year, Studio).

This will return 9 Album group results with:

• Blues CD / Rock CD / Blues United States / Rock United States
• Blues Rock CD / Blues Rock United States
• ·Blues CD United States / Rock CD United States
• ·Blues Rock CD United States

This narrows the total Albums, but not enough.

If there were even just two filtering group selections each, for Genres and Tags, then I could easily select Blues AND Rock AND CD AND United States:

This returns only 1 Album group result with:

• Blues Rock CD United States

This narrows the total Albums, to the exact criteria.

Because there are now two Genre labels and two Tag labels these could become:

• Genre Group 1
• Genre Group 2
• Tag Group 1
• Tag Group 2

I’m suggesting Group because they are actually OR groups of items already, where people can pick many, not just one. This OR functionality has not changed from what it is already now. The added AND functionality (and complexity) is two extra filters, but the UI would still work the same as now.

If people don’t need or want to use the new Group 2 options, the default state would be Any, again no major change to the current UI.

I have no idea how difficult this would be with the underlying Emby coding and database, but from a user and UI perspective, the basic (hidden AND/OR) logic of how to filter doesn’t change, there are just two more selections that can be made. People don’t have to use them unless they want to, just like the other options that are there now.  This may still not be enough for power users, with massive tagged libraries (wanting Genre Group 3 and Tag Group 3, etc.) but perhaps it is a reasonable half-way approach for improved filtering to suit the majority?

Feedback and comments most welcome. Any errors in the above logic are mine! Would this work for you?

[Luke 37005]

Quote

I have no idea how difficult this would be with the underlying Emby coding and database, but from a user and UI perspective, the basic (hidden AND/OR) logic of how to filter doesn’t change, there are just two more selections that can be made. People don’t have to use them unless they want to, just like the other options that are there now.  This may still not be enough for power users, with massive tagged libraries (wanting Genre Group 3 and Tag Group 3, etc.) but perhaps it is a reasonable half-way approach for improved filtering to suit the majority?

Hi, yes the challenge is with both the querying on the backside but more importantly the user interface, and finding a way to keep that simple and easy for everyone to use.