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Glitches on some (not all) 4K HEVC Remuxes


nanuk

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Hi,
I have an problem playing some (NOT ALL) 4K HEVC Remuxes.
There are glitches in the picture while playing these movies 😞
The glitches are reproducable (always at the same timestamp/position of a movie).
These glitches do not appear when using Emby App on FireTV Stick or Kodi but only when using the LG Emby App.

They appear on all of my three LG TV's (different models and sizes and even different Versions of WebOS) when using Emby (Direct Play, no Transcoding).

There has never been a glitch when playing a 1080p movie (and I played a lot of them 🙂 )

I'll attach some screens... and also the mediainfo files of the 2 movies.

Let me know how I could help to fix this problem!

 

20201202_144403.mp4_snapshot_00.01_[2020.12.02_15.01.26].jpg

20201202_144403.mp4_snapshot_00.03_[2020.12.02_15.02.23].jpg

20201202_145401.mp4_snapshot_00.04_[2020.12.02_15.03.05].jpg

Example1.txt Example2.txt

Edited by nanuk
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This is a common issue on both LG and Samsung TV's due to their limited processing capability and the way we currently stream remuxed content.

Playing 4K TrueHD, which requires remux of the audio will cause this problem.  It has come up a lot on this forum (Showing results for 'TrueHD' in content posted in LG Smart TV. - Emby Community)

It's best to pick the AC3/5.1 track before commencing playback to ensure it DirectPlays.  The only way to avoid this issue is to avoid remuxing (so no TrueHD or DTS audio tracks).  if an alternate 5.1 track does not exist, it's easy enough to add one manually

https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/92240-french-language-selected-by-english-sound/&do=findComment&comment=952570

Some more info Why does the Emby App for my LG TV not play the Dolby Atmos TrueHD Audio without Transcoding? : Emby

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Hi @SamES

this isn't an issue of transcoding. All files are played "Direct Play". The TrueHD Track was not selected!
DTS isn't a problem with my LG TVs it's played without transcoding or even Direct Streaming.

As I said in my initial post the glitches are appearing while playing the movie "direct play" .

 

Edited by nanuk
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OK, so you have this issue on some, not all 4K HEVC files, and DirectPlay is true in all cases.

For the files that have problems, do they have any obvious differences compared to those 4K HEVC files that play fine?

So for example, 

  • Do all the files with issues have very high bitrates (>60Mb/s), compared to those that play fine
  • Do they have a high number of streams (audio and sub tracks)

I would suggest that the two examples you have provided would be close to the upper end of the supported specification, it may that the TV is struggling to keep up with processing the streams.

You could try copying just the video stream and the AC3 stream to a new mkv file, no transcoding, just a direct stream copy and see if that improves the playback.  I have seen that make a difference for complex files.

What type of network connection are you using?  The wired connection on these TV's is limited to 100Mb, so you would be close to exceeding this with those files.  If you have a wireless connection, it needs to be a good 5GHz link (and be careful as some 5GHz channels are known to have interference, stick to the lowest or highest channels (ie: channel 48 should be fine) 

 

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14 minutes ago, SamES said:

OK, so you have this issue on some, not all 4K HEVC files, and DirectPlay is true in all cases.

Yes, that's the fact 😉

15 minutes ago, SamES said:

You could try copying just the video stream and the AC3 stream to a new mkv file, no transcoding, just a direct stream copy and see if that improves the playback.  I have seen that make a difference for complex files.

I'll try this and report again.

15 minutes ago, SamES said:

What type of network connection are you using?  The wired connection on these TV's is limited to 100Mb, so you would be close to exceeding this with those files.  If you have a wireless connection, it needs to be a good 5GHz link (and be careful as some 5GHz channels are known to have interference, stick to the lowest or highest channels (ie: channel 48 should be fine) 

I don't think it's a network issue... I got an USB2LAN Adapter connected to my TV and most movies, ones with higher bitrate like the lion king too, are working fine without any problems.
another LG TV is connected via good 5GHz link and the problems are identical on both TV's with the same movies at the exacly same timestamps.

 

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You can also try putting the files on a USB drive and connecting it to the TV and check playback via the TV's built in media player.  I actually expect you may see the same problem.

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Hi again @SamES

thanks für all the imput and ideas.
The internal media player shows exactly the same behavior 😞
Even removing all streams (audio & subtitles) out of the mkv has also shown no difference.

I think the problem is now clear...
It seems to be a problem of LG's C7 OLED Series. Both of my LG C7's are having the same problem, but I found out that my third LG (LED Model) does not have this problem (anymore?)

So doesn't seem to be emby's prob 😉

Maybe I try to contact LG Support and describe my problem there 😉

Thanx anyway

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crusher11

Are they Dolby Vision titles? I seem to be having this issue with 4K discs that have Dolby Vision, but not those that are only HDR10. They were made with MakeMKV 1.15.2, which didn't handle DV correctly AFAIK. I haven't yet got around to reripping with 1.15.3 and testing those.

Also @SamES since you mentioned it above, why does DTS-HD MA not work on 4K titles? It works fine on 1080p titles, just picking out the DTS core and playing that. But on 4K DTS-HD MA remuxes. Why is it different?

Edited by crusher11
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9 hours ago, crusher11 said:

Also @SamES since you mentioned it above, why does DTS-HD MA not work on 4K titles? It works fine on 1080p titles, just picking out the DTS core and playing that. But on 4K DTS-HD MA remuxes. Why is it different?

That's something I wasn't aware of, and can't think why that would be the case.  I would have thought that container and audio streams would be fairly identical, regardless of the video stream so it does seem surprising.  It may be that there are different varieties of DTS-HD MA formats, of which some are unable to be extracted by LG.  Not really sure though

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crusher11

In fairness my sample size is one - Die Hard 4K, specifically - so it may be a title-specific thing. It's definitely remuxing the DTS-HD MA track (the original 2.0 Surround track) to AAC.

 

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1 hour ago, crusher11 said:

In fairness my sample size is one - Die Hard 4K, specifically - so it may be a title-specific thing. It's definitely remuxing the DTS-HD MA track (the original 2.0 Surround track) to AAC.

 

If it's remuxing, then I expect it's doing so because it's being told to, not because it can't extract the DTS core.  Can you attach the remux log?

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31 minutes ago, crusher11 said:

What do you mean being told to? 

The client has a matrix of rules defining what codecs are supported by the client.  With debug logging enabled on the server, you can see this matrix when you attempt to play an item.

Based on this matrix, the server decides whether the file should be DirectPlayed, DirectStreamed/remuxed or transcoded.

Generally, DirectStream/remux is only an audio stream conversion, so this is only attempted if the server determines that the audio stream is not directly playable.

If it was supposed to DirectPlay, but playback failed, the normal fallback is to transcode.  Therefore, if it is remuxing, then this is because the server 'knows' that DirectPlay for the audio stream is not supported and has told it to remux.

If you attach the remux log and server log (with debug logging on) it will make it clearer, but what I can conclude is that the server did not deliver the file as DirectPlay.  Therefore, the TV won't be trying to extract the DTS core.  Why there is still no audio after remux is another issue to consider.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
crusher11

Can confirm that reripping the problem titles with the latest version of MakeMKV fixed this for me, so it's clearly something to do with the problems that specific version had with Dolby Vision. @nanuk

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5 hours ago, crusher11 said:

Can confirm that reripping the problem titles with the latest version of MakeMKV fixed this for me, so it's clearly something to do with the problems that specific version had with Dolby Vision. @nanuk

This bug?

  • Bug fixes:
    • DTS core was not extracted from DTS-HD streams (1.15.0 regression)
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  • 2 months later...
nanuk

Hi *,

just to close this topic...

The problem described in my first posting (Glitches on some (not all) 4K HEVC Remuxes) was solved by the latest LG Firmware Update (6.00.5) and now all 4K Remuxes are running fine 😉 

Thanks to LG for supporting even old TV models (OLED65C7D)!

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  • 1 month later...
Nanganator

I have the same issue on a Samsung TV UE55NU7020. Firmware version 1310.4. Samsung unfortunately not so forthcoming with the fix. Media plays fine on other 4K devices but Direct playing from Emby, or playing the mkv directly from attached storage glitches in exactly the same position. HEVC Main 10@L5@High, SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible. Audio is EAC3.
Heads up for anyone else with these 2017/2018 model Samsungs who want to watch 4K.

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SamES
19 minutes ago, Nanganator said:

I have the same issue on a Samsung TV UE55NU7020. Firmware version 1310.4. Samsung unfortunately not so forthcoming with the fix. Media plays fine on other 4K devices but Direct playing from Emby, or playing the mkv directly from attached storage glitches in exactly the same position. HEVC Main 10@L5@High, SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible. Audio is EAC3.
Heads up for anyone else with these 2017/2018 model Samsungs who want to watch 4K.

I wouldn't say that this is a common issue on Samsung TV's if it is DirectPlaying, but might occur if DirectStreaming 4K HEVC content.

Can you provide the media info, etc for and example and confirm it is definitely DirectPlay? 

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Nanganator

It is for sure a Samsung problem and not related to Emby. TV does the same thing when playing the same file from direct attached storage with its built in player. Same files work direct play perfectly from Emby on other 4k players.

Can confirm its direct playing.
Title: 4K HEVC
Codec: HEVC
Profile: Main 10
Level: 150
Resolution: 3840x2160
Aspect Ratio: 16:9
Interlaced: No
Framerate: 23.976
Bitrate: 24,688 kbps
Video Range: HDR
Colour Primaries: bt2020
Colour Space: bt2020nc
Colour Transfer: smpte2084
Bit Depth: 10 bit
Pixel Format: yuv420p10le
Reference Frames: 1

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SamES
3 hours ago, Nanganator said:

It is for sure a Samsung problem and not related to Emby. TV does the same thing when playing the same file from direct attached storage with its built in player. Same files work direct play perfectly from Emby on other 4k players.

Can confirm its direct playing.
Title: 4K HEVC
Codec: HEVC
Profile: Main 10
Level: 150
Resolution: 3840x2160
Aspect Ratio: 16:9
Interlaced: No
Framerate: 23.976
Bitrate: 24,688 kbps
Video Range: HDR
Colour Primaries: bt2020
Colour Space: bt2020nc
Colour Transfer: smpte2084
Bit Depth: 10 bit
Pixel Format: yuv420p10le
Reference Frames: 1

OK, well that's the best way to confirm.  It sounds like then that there is actually an issue with this file as I don't see any reason in these specs why the file shouldn't play.

You can PM a link to the file for me and I'll check it out if you want.

23 hours ago, Nanganator said:

Media plays fine on other 4K devices

Is it DirectPlaying on these devices?

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rbjtech

If the file plays ok on other hardware, then It's probably a seamless branching file with 'bad' branch timing that stalls the player.  Exoplayer has similar issues with certain types of Audio dropout for example.  The only real solution is for Samsung to fix their player. 

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