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Emby Theater - No Internet


JDizzy

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JDizzy

Quick question.

With the Nvidia Shield I have been using, I used the Emby unlock to use Emby without internet.

Now, I would like to run both server and Emby Theater on a Windows machine at a remote location without internet access.

There is a local network, but no internet available. Is it possible to have the same Premier options as I have now as far as cover art, etc? (I will be moving it to remote location once setup). All the video and music will be loaded  on a 10tb external attached with usb prior to moving. I will not be adding any additional content when at remote location.

Is there anything special I need to do (when Emby calls home and there is no connection), or do I need some sort of unlock again?

Thanks!

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Hi @JDizzy

You won't be able to run Emby offline permanently and keep Premiere features.  It will need to communicate home on occasion.

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JDizzy

This is sad.... I do wish there was a way we could keep the Premiere options available when working remotely.

A dongle? 

It boils down to me going a different route due to the parameters that are set.

Thanks

 

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No chance to be able to fire up a hotspot on your phone once a week or so to allow the apps and server to authenticate?

You don't need constant connection.

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You should be able to last at least a week though, so it doesn't need an internet connection at all times.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Wilky13

Has there been a way to use Emby Theater without internet?  I have setup a server and put ET on it to use on a US Navy ship while on deployment. The server and Roku are on an isolated network with no internet connection.  Is there a way to use ET on the server with no internet?  Right now when I try to it just sits in the taskbar and never opens the ET window.

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Wilky13

Thanks, Luke.  When I first took it offline for testing ET still worked fine.  However, after a reboot of the server PC while on the non-internet network, is when ET stopped loading.

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Did some testing, same result.  Exposed network to internet: ET loaded up fine.  Cut off network from internet: ET worked fine for 3 days. On 4th day would not load, sits in taskbar with minimized white screen.  Re-exposed network to the internet, closed unresponsive ET, re-opened and loaded fine. Seems to stop working at about 3-4 days of no contact with the internet. Playing media through the browser works in all cases. The problem is just loading Emby Theater (ET).

Edited by Wilky13
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Emby Folks,

Please Please Please consider supporting a license mode where Emby can work in full "Premier" mode and all the Apps can work when Emby is mostly (permanently) off line.  I want to pay for Emby (in fact I have) but this needing to be online is really painful for us.  I KNOW the world is mostly connected but there is and always will be disconnected scenarios.  Plex has failed this scenario totally which is why we moved to Emby but Emby Premier only "mostly" works off line ...

Much like the Navy Ship scenario above we deploy Emby to Jets, Yachts, Buses, etc. where the Emby Server is almost never on line.  Some of these do not have ANY internet, other do but it's EXTREMELY expensive ($16,000/month for Internet service @5-10Mbps).   So we will only connect the Server to the internet very infrequently for software installation/maintenance.  Ideally we verify and lock a license into a server at one these setup/maintenance periods.

Ideally the license would be for a specific "named" server and only for that Server.  I'm willing to buy a license per server and have it locked to that Server.  The only scenarios where I'd ever need to be able to move the license to a different physical machine in in the case of machine failure / hardware upgrades.  I'm more than willing to have Emby on line during the initial license process to validate and create some key for that specific machine to insure that I'm not assigning the license to multiple machines.

I'm also happy to live with various restrictions to limit the capabilities for the license and pay more for higher capabilities.  For example we probably don't ever need more than 15-20 simulations streams including Web streams, etc.  That might be an even better way to license in some ways than the current model as you can control total clients that way even from web browsers.

I'd really like to solve this problem and spend more money with Emby but as it stand today Premier's current licensing doesn't work for our case.

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1 hour ago, fogpuppy said:

Emby Folks,

Please Please Please consider supporting a license mode where Emby can work in full "Premier" mode and all the Apps can work when Emby is mostly (permanently) off line.  I want to pay for Emby (in fact I have) but this needing to be online is really painful for us.  I KNOW the world is mostly connected but there is and always will be disconnected scenarios.  Plex has failed this scenario totally which is why we moved to Emby but Emby Premier only "mostly" works off line ...

Much like the Navy Ship scenario above we deploy Emby to Jets, Yachts, Buses, etc. where the Emby Server is almost never on line.  Some of these do not have ANY internet, other do but it's EXTREMELY expensive ($16,000/month for Internet service @5-10Mbps).   So we will only connect the Server to the internet very infrequently for software installation/maintenance.  Ideally we verify and lock a license into a server at one these setup/maintenance periods.

Ideally the license would be for a specific "named" server and only for that Server.  I'm willing to buy a license per server and have it locked to that Server.  The only scenarios where I'd ever need to be able to move the license to a different physical machine in in the case of machine failure / hardware upgrades.  I'm more than willing to have Emby on line during the initial license process to validate and create some key for that specific machine to insure that I'm not assigning the license to multiple machines.

I'm also happy to live with various restrictions to limit the capabilities for the license and pay more for higher capabilities.  For example we probably don't ever need more than 15-20 simulations streams including Web streams, etc.  That might be an even better way to license in some ways than the current model as you can control total clients that way even from web browsers.

I'd really like to solve this problem and spend more money with Emby but as it stand today Premier's current licensing doesn't work for our case.

Hi,

If you don't mind me asking what Premiere features are you using in this offline manner besides app unlocks?

I've done a couple of plane installs as well as a few yachts & RVs myself and still help to manage them and don't have a problem with Premiere.  What I did was use a mobile service for networking and just restricted IPs that could be used to not allow excess usage.  This way the apps and server could phone home as needed to keep proper activation and the cost was in the $10s of dollars instead of hundreds or thousands per month. :) Any time you can connect to free WIFI the cell data is not used.

From my experience planes were easy as you can get mobile service pretty easy.  Cruise ships typically have internet so again not an issue.  Only private yachts out to see and "off grid" for extended periods are a problem.

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It is mostly App unlock but also to remove the incessant "nagging" to "Buy Emby Premier".

I don't know what planes you've done but ... the private jets we are dealing with often don't have Internet at all or it is restricted to a few specific IP/Mac addresses to limit usage (if they are paying for it by the MB).  And ... if the equipment is not installed (as it is not on some planes) then it can be hundreds of thousands to install it so it's not really an option to say "hey get an internet connection".  Same is true for Tour buses and Yachts.   

 

But yes what I Mostly want it to enable the use of the Apps and not get Nagged.  BTW charging for the Apps is (IMO) silly.  Just chage for the server and let the apps be free.  After all the app is free on Fire/Roku/AppleTV) and the browser is free.  Why try to charge for only iPad/iPhone and Android.  That's seems silly .... 

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 Like I said we provided our own internet when needed which is cheap using cell technology all hooked to the same entertainment power grid.  So when electronics are allowed to be used the system is turned on which powers everything up and in a couple of minutes have WIFI with restricted cell backhaul for internet access as well as active Ethernet ports throughout the cabin. If there is public wifi within range the system can use that instead of cell.

If this is on a plane with existing internet access setup the router's MAC for access and do restriction on it to only allow access to mb3admin.emby.media.  You can try this offline at home in a test environment to see how very little bandwidth is used.

Most of the time we've been asked to give full Internet usage via cell networking as it's cheap relatively speaking compared to other expenses involved.

What apps are charged for and which aren't is a business decision that is based on many factors such as the app stores policies as well, who/when they were created, etc.  Many people can use Emby completely for free this way.  But that's a discussion for another day. 

What apps do you need to support in this fashion?  Are these family/business owned or charter vehicles?

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The issue I am seeing while offline is Emby Theater won’t open on the main sever (HTPC) if it hasn’t seen the internet in 3-4 days. Playback though the web app still works, but not the stand alone Emby Theater for Windows.

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The cellular network idea won't work for a couple of reasons the main one being a fair number of our customers go "over ocean" ... not a lot of cellular towers out there.  So they use the KA satellite network ... but in any case it still seems strange to me that you charge for only a couple clients out of all they way to access the server.    Please consider some sort of machine based license it would solve my problems and it seem like other's as well ....

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Yea, cell is not to good on boats that will be out a sea for a long period.  However the types of checks that Emby does would not cost nearly anything even on KA sat. It basically just passes a few packets back and forth of encrypted text to check for licensing.

You can find other threads dealing with why somethings are charged for and others not that go into detail but it's not as simple as you might think. It's part business decision based on what the app stores support and/or allow or not and in this day and age you don't want to do just do only server auth as that could be spoofed with a man in the middle type hack so the checks need to be done from the different apps but should cache the info for a reasonable period of time.

Keep in mind that some clients have free playback, other apps can be individually unlocked if the store allows it and some apps are not free nor can be unlocked but can only be used with a Premiere Licensed Server.  Those a something of a "bonus" for Premiere subscribers only. Any device with a browser can get full playback for free and not need a licensed server if not using Premiere functionality so that could be a way to go for the long ocean trips.

Emby wasn't designed to be run off line "per say", but does try to handle normal outages that can last a few days.  You just happen to use the product in a way it wasn't really designed for.  If your main problem is the Theater client Luke might be able to help you as previously mentioned.

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Ok ... Theater is important for some Our users but we're holding off due to a few issues with remote controls on Linux.  Essentially because of this issue we have abandoned the apps and just have people use browsers.  I know you think it's not a big issue but putting internet into a plane that doesn't have it but it is sometimes a show stopper For our clients.   We can continue to suffer along as we are using only browsers. 

Believe me I've been in the SW business for over 30 years so I know licensing can be complicated but it's also interesting to note that sometimes licensing is more trouble than it's worth especially if you have a free version.  If your MS then the piracy can be a real issue But ... You may actually be spending more on making enforcement work than you actually will ever "recover" from you enforment.  People will pay for support and features but I sort of doubt anyone will pay just for a client.  But it's your business so do whatever you think is best.

 

 

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Happy2Play
26 minutes ago, fogpuppy said:

People will pay for support and features but I sort of doubt anyone will pay just for a client.

Many users do on all of those Android devices.

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Yes people buy apps all the time.   But not typically for a UI for for a server based product you also pay for..  You don't pay for the Amazon Prime video app you pay for Amazon Prime on the server.  Same for music, same for drop box or ... Well literally dozens of other examples. 

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10 minutes ago, fogpuppy said:

Yes people buy apps all the time.   But not typically for a UI for for a server based product you also pay for..  You don't pay for the Amazon Prime video app you pay for Amazon Prime on the server.  Same for music, same for drop box or ... Well literally dozens of other examples. 

You just named SERVICES not applications so it's an apples to cars comparison.  Some people choose to run a server without Premiere and this can work just fine.  Browsers, Rukos, smart TVs, etc can all be used without spending a dime so Emby is very generous in this regard.  If a user wants a particular different app like Android TV they can purchase the app  unlock for roughly $5 which is good for a lifetime and for ANY Emby server they connect to.

Some people would very much disagree with you and would prefer to use a free server and just purchase a couple of Apps to unlock them and have full playback.  I for example have 4 Android TV clients on my Google App account so for roughly $5 got all 4 unlocked.  Between them and the Rokus my total costs could be as low as $5 for full playback.  I personally want to support the DEVS to keep adding to this fine software and I like the Premiere functions added for a lifetime $119 cost which is cheap.  By using Emby Live TV and a couple tuner boxes it more than pays for itself every year in cable company savings!

The analogy you mentioned would be better closer to asking Microsoft to Give away Office or Windows 10 because your company purchased Windows Server.  Good luck with that. :)

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1 hour ago, fogpuppy said:

Believe me I've been in the SW business for over 30 years so I know licensing can be complicated but it's also interesting to note that sometimes licensing is more trouble than it's worth especially if you have a free version.  If your MS then the piracy can be a real issue But ... You may actually be spending more on making enforcement work than you actually will ever "recover" from you enforment.  People will pay for support and features but I sort of doubt anyone will pay just for a client.  But it's your business so do whatever you think is best.

I understand that kind of thought but this isn't an "office app" but a different beast compltely.

What do you think happens if Emby gets lax on licensing/enforcement?  People start using it more and more for "Commercial Netflix" type setups selling access using our software.  So when one their clients is pissed at their service they go back to the app store and file a complaint or give the app bad marks thinking THEY are Emby.  The app store staff looks at the site, see's copyright content, porn, illegal TV service or any other thing that's against the app store policy and what do you think happens?  There are not many types of apps where you can get software for both a server and a client that works like Emby and app store staff aren't used to this type of setup.  The understand "apps" and service companies where the author controls things and is responsible for what the user content is or can be.  Not the case at all with Emby software and we do ZERO content, but that can be a foreign notion to app stores.

So NO, licensing is NOT more work than it's worth and one if not the only way to keep abuse down that would hurt all legit customers and people using Emby proper for friends and family.  Obviously Emby needs the use of app stores and has to make sure our software is clean, not used for wrong purposes and can't hurt our brand name via the Stores.

Licensing and some type of control is needed in this type of environment when a person can setup their own server (we don't have control over) that could ruin things for everyone else using Emby.  It's far more involved than most would assume and things are done for a reason.  The way this is done isn't likely to change any time soon as it works, is unobtrusive for 99.9999% of all users and is proven over years of use.  It also balances cost for users to choose how they want to run their system and give them choices over apps and features needed with the ability to use the system completely free for family use.

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Talk about apples to cars ...  Office or windows 10 are not just a UI to Windows server.  If you're going to Mock me at least try to make your mocking self consistent.

And you miss the most sailient point which is that you ALREADY offer and provide FREE client apps.  So charging on one or two platforms for the client is NOT a licensing issue for the server ....  Again apples to cars.

As for your argument about new  "Free Netflix" services popping up and using your software  ... Well there are all sorts of legal issues that would be far more worrisome than violating an Emby license.  The Media license costs and restrictions are waaaay more of an an issue than the paltry license fees for Emby.  If I was worried about that and was going to violate licenses in that way I'm just going to use Kodi or Jellyfin or ... 

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