Opus Direct Play on LG C9

[alucryd 216]

Hi there, I recently started reencoding my video library's audio to Opus, because 24bit FLAC is just a waste of space, and noticed emby transcodes it to AC3 instead of streaming it like it does FLAC.

 

However, while doing that I found something very interesting. One of my series was still in a hybrid state, meaning I had just converted it, but emby didn't have time to scan it yet so it still thought it was FLAC. And guess what, it streamed perfectly, so it looks like the C9 (and probably other LG models) does have support for Opus, stats for nerds confirmed it was direct play (of FLAC, but the series was actually Opus).

 

@@Luke Would it be possible to stream Opus on LG? The transcoding way is mostly broken when it comes to subtitles and navigation. If I fast-forward or go back in time, subtitles get consistently out of sync, sometimes by several seconds, and switching between subtitles is even worse as it prints one line from the previous subtitles forever on the video, and displays the new subtitles over that.

[Luke 37060]

@@SamES

[rbjtech 4257]

I concur with the OP.

 

Opus does appear to play direct without the need to convert (if I force, no transcode) - but this has previously been identified in this thread -

 

https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/66932-no-audio-opus/

 

Opus is not however listed on the LG's site as a supported audio codec - so I guess the question is while my LG TV appears to play them, do all versions of WebOS play it and as a consequence would Emby open itself up for support calls if the support was only limited ?

 

To the OP, why convert your FLAC to Opus anyway - Why not use a wider supported codec such as AAC - the saving in bitrate is probably not worth the grief in compatibility issues, especially as you previously used FLAC ! 

Edited April 22, 2020 by rbjtech

[SamES 890]

Can you try this sample for me?  You will need to disable transcoding to force directplay

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6dhpj0bb5jwe7c/caminandes-1-llama-drama-x264-opus-480p.mkv?dl=0

 

When I test it on LG I get no audio, but it works fine on Tizen so the file should be good.

 

My LG model is 43UJ654T / 2017 model / webOS 3.5

 

 

[rbjtech 4257]

Can you try this sample for me?  You will need to disable transcoding to force directplay

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6dhpj0bb5jwe7c/caminandes-1-llama-drama-x264-opus-480p.mkv?dl=0

 

When I test it on LG I get no audio, but it works fine on Tizen so the file should be good.

 

My LG model is 43UJ654T / 2017 model / webOS 3.5

 

@@SamES It direct played fine with sound.

 

This is on an LG OLED65C8PLA - WebOS 4.1.4 

 

http://webostv.developer.lge.com/discover/specifications/supported-media-formats/webos-45/

 

This gives you the full list of codec support per Web OS - but .opus is not there.. but it played it just fine. 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Luke

[SamES 890]

So that would suggest it's not officially supported, but is technically capable on later models.

 

 

I think we'd want to verify this on a few more models, and even then we would need to start selecting codecs based on model/years which is messy (and not typically done so far)

[rbjtech 4257]

My personal view is stick to the manufacturers officially support list - and anything else transcode.  That way, you can guarantee it will play, albeit it not in the native format.

[KevinSartori 8]

Hi all,

 

The dropbox file that SamES uploaded played normally on my OLED65B7P running webOS 3.8.0-61114 (dreadlocks2-dunggir), but only because it converted the audio to AAC:

 

 

I couldn't figure out how to force DirectPlay in Emby.  When I threw the file on a thumb drive to play it direct via LG's internal player, I received a "This video does not support audio" pop-up error.  The video played but there was no audio.  It looks like my 7 series, webOS 3.8 OLED is a no-go for Opus direct play!

[SamES 890]

Hi all,

 

The dropbox file that SamES uploaded played normally on my OLED65B7P running webOS 3.8.0-61114 (dreadlocks2-dunggir), but only because it converted the audio to AAC:

 

 

I couldn't figure out how to force DirectPlay in Emby. When I threw the file on a thumb drive to play it direct via LG's internal player, I received a "This video does not support audio" pop-up error. The video played but there was no audio. It looks like my 7 series, webOS 3.8 OLED is a no-go for Opus direct play!

Thanks, that is what I expected.

 

We should leave this to continue transcoding until officially supported.

[alucryd 216]

Apologies for the late reply.

 

@@rbjtech Because OPUS is objectively better than AAC, most newish hardware has support for it, it only has a reference encoder that works well (if you don't count the subpar ffmpeg internal encoder) compared to at least 4 implementations for AAC, with varying quality and for arguably the best ones really ugly licenses.

 

@@SamES How do you force direct play? Didn't find any option in the app? Is that server side? Don't really want to disable transcoding across the board.

 

Even if not advertised, I doubt opus support is tied to the hardware but rather the WebOS version, couldn't a simple if on the version enable or disable direct play on the fly?

 

I really wouldn't mind transcoding if there weren't so many issues with it on the LG app. As said in OP, subtitles are completely broken when you try to navigate, and I can't resume any partially watched video for the same reason. I'm also getting audio artifacts, like audio skipping at some points during playback. All these issues don't exist at all when direct playing.

[rbjtech 4257]

Apologies for the late reply.

 

@@rbjtech Because OPUS is objectively better than AAC, most newish hardware has support for it, it only has a reference encoder that works well (if you don't count the subpar ffmpeg internal encoder) compared to at least 4 implementations for AAC, with varying quality and for arguably the best ones really ugly licenses.

 

@@SamES How do you force direct play? Didn't find any option in the app? Is that server side? Don't really want to disable transcoding across the board.

 

Even if not advertised, I doubt opus support is tied to the hardware but rather the WebOS version, couldn't a simple if on the version enable or disable direct play on the fly?

 

I really wouldn't mind transcoding if there weren't so many issues with it on the LG app. As said in OP, subtitles are completely broken when you try to navigate, and I can't resume any partially watched video for the same reason. I'm also getting audio artifacts, like audio skipping at some points during playback. All these issues don't exist at all when direct playing.

 

At very low bitrates, then yes I agree OPUS is better - but at decent bitrates (read 'normal') there is an inaudible difference - and if you want that sort of sound definition, then why move from FLAC ?

 

The simple fact is LG do not officially support OPUS - so whether some extra logic is added to 'trick' it into playing direct or not, Emby Dev's are never going to officially support this audio codec on the LG Player.

 

if you are authoring your own MKV's anyway (from the FLAC's) then why not have the best of both worlds  and add an AAC and a OPUS audio track for maximum compatibility .. ?

Edited April 27, 2020 by rbjtech

[alucryd 216]

I could have bundled 2 tracks, but the end goal was to save space, and even if AAC is indistinguishable from OPUS at higher bitrates, OPUS is still better, and being an open source advocate the choice was clear.

[alucryd 216]

FWIW I installed minidlna to serve those files. The TV properly plays them, and identifies them as

HEVC OPUS 1920x1080

The TV can recognize and label OPUS, so it's not just a happy coincidence, the OPUS support is official and baked in WebOS.

[tamasmx 2]

I wound up in the situation to have some opus encoded in my collection.

• On the tv, in the emby application it seems as if it was playing the file, yet there is no sound (stats for nerds says "ogg stream, "opus encoding", direct play.). Album cover image appears, progress bar starts to proceed and until the correct time length. It's just as if i had my mute button on.
• Per google search lg still does not seem to have much support for opus audio. I bought my TV back in 2020-ish.
• Placing the very same audio files on a usb stick and mounting into the TV does not even list the file.

My gut impression is that emby somehow detects a false positive support for opus audio of my client.

I don't see much details in the log, i attached it anyway. From the point that lib refresh detects the file.

I also attached such a music sample that reproduces the bug.*

Is there any way to rectify/untangle this? @SamES@Luke

 

@alucrydwhere do you see this reference of opus audio support? Just because I don't see any here. Would be interesting and perhaps helpful if you could test the attached audio file with your tv.

* Legal clarification per its CC BY-NC-SA 1.0 Deed license to comprehend the law: the audio file attached is in its unchanged form as found today at https://opus-codec.org/examples/

playback.log ehren-paper_lights-96.opus

Edited November 24, 2023 by tamasmx
additional message to alucryd

[SamES 890]

Thanks, I've just tested this file (I already have it in my test collection).  It plays on 2022 models, but not on my 2017 model, so somewhere in between the support changed

[SamES 890]

6 minutes ago, SamES said:

Thanks, I've just tested this file (I already have it in my test collection).  It plays on 2022 models, but not on my 2017 model, so somewhere in between the support changed

Found the issue.  We had previously excluded opus for 2017 models, but ogg has snuck through. 

[tamasmx 2]

Is it known which version this fix will be shipped in?

[Luke 37060]

4 hours ago, tamasmx said:

Is it known which version this fix will be shipped in?

HI, it will be in the next update to Emby for LG. Thanks.

[heffeque 39]

Has it been identified what version of WebOS added Opus support?

Though I'm assuming that the Opus support comes more from the underlying Linux than LG adding it proactively.

[Luke 37060]

3 hours ago, heffeque said:

Has it been identified what version of WebOS added Opus support?

Though I'm assuming that the Opus support comes more from the underlying Linux than LG adding it proactively.

webos 5+.