Jibest 26 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 I have an RU7400 Samsung tv which I use the Emby app and also have a Firetv attached with Emby installed. On the FireTV I have to enable Refresh Rate Switching to view UHD films in 2160p. I also need to change the display mode to 2160/30 otherwise I get juddering every 30 seconds (The tv can't seem to match the 29.976 fps & instead uses 24). On the Samsung app there is no Refresh Rate Switching option. Also when in the Emby app you cannot use the remote to press the "Info" button to show what resolution the tv is running. The info button instead acts like a select button within Emby instead of its normal Tv function......Because the Firetv is a seperate input I can get the tv to show the resolution by reselecting the input, but as the Samsung app is not a device that can be selected via Source I cannot use this trick. So I have no idea at what resolution UHD content is displaying at when using the Samsung app but I believe it is using 1080p/60. This is because there is no judder while the content is playing so unless it knows to output at 2160p/30 by default on this tv then I would have expected judder. Is there a way to confirm what resolution is being used from within Emby or from Emby logs as there is currently no way to get this information from the tv? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostByte 5049 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Is there a way to confirm what resolution is being used from within Emby or from Emby logs as there is currently no way to get this information from the tv? I also think that would be a great thing to add to SFN. The ATV app displays both the original and streaming resolution along with some other good information that isn't in the Samsung app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamES 890 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 I think it was in SFN at some stage, but it caused confusion so it was removed. If it is DirectPlaying then the internal player will select the correct refresh rate and it will play at UHD resolution if supported by the TV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibest 26 Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 Hi thanks for the replies, I think it said it is direct streaming. I believe the audio needs to be transcoded from DTS. I'm after proof though rather than assumptions. Is there no debug that can run on the app that would say what it is outputting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37057 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 We don't get that type of info from the tizen video player so the best you can do is look at how the server is delivering it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibest 26 Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 We don't get that type of info from the tizen video player so the best you can do is look at how the server is delivering it. Where should I look specificaly? Is there a specific line in the ffmpeg log? Also how accurate is this? I compared two ffmpeg logs from my Firetv one set to 1080p & one set to 2160p/30 but both looked the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37057 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 I would just look at the info in the server dashboard while playing, or the stats feature we have in the video player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamES 890 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 If it is DIrectStreaming, that in the ffmpeg-remux log you will see that it is just copying the existing stream and the TV will play it in it's native format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibest 26 Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 I would just look at the info in the server dashboard while playing, or the stats feature we have in the video player.The dashboard shows very little. Just transcode position & that it is direct streaming. The i just says the container is incompatible and explaind what direct streaming is. Is there a section I'm missing? The stats for nerds also showed little with no resolution information provided. But to be honest I've found that data unreliable anyway. I've attached a screenshot from a firetv I have that shows the resolution as 3840x1608 but the TV clearly shows it's running at 1080p? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamES 890 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 The dashboard shows very little. Just transcode position & that it is direct streaming. The i just says the container is incompatible and explaind what direct streaming is. Is there a section I'm missing? The stats for nerds also showed little with no resolution information provided. But to be honest I've found that data unreliable anyway. I've attached a screenshot from a firetv I have that shows the resolution as 3840x1608 but the TV clearly shows it's running at 1080p? In SFN on FireTV, Emby knows the video source if 4K, but it can't know that FireTV is downgrading it to 1080 via HDMI, this is beyond the apps capability. With regards to the Samsung App, do you have a reason why you think it is not playing in 4K/UHD at the source resolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibest 26 Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) In SFN on FireTV, Emby knows the video source if 4K, but it can't know that FireTV is downgrading it to 1080 via HDMI, this is beyond the apps capability. With regards to the Samsung App, do you have a reason why you think it is not playing in 4K/UHD at the source resolution? Its related to this thread here: https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/81095-refresh-rate-switching-stutter/page-2&do=findComment&comment=829434 I'll summarise here but maybe best to read the whole thread for the complete picture: I've a FireTV 2nd Gen 4K box also connected to the tv. When I tried playing the UHD files I noticed (as shown in the screenshot) that the tv resolution was not changed. I started digging and found the option for Refresh Rate Switching. When I turned this on the Tv did change but I noticed judder roughly every 30 seconds or so which after discussions on the other thread we believe is because the file is 23.976 fps but the tv is showing 24hz (although I guess the tv could be rounding this up). If I change the refresh rate to 2160/30 then the judder disappears, although while watching there is occassional very minimal judder that I could live with. When I play the film through the Tizen app there is no judder at all, its very smooth which begs the question why?? The only reasons I can see for this is etiher: The output is not in 2160 but is instead being played in 1080p at 60hz & is then upscaled by the tv. The tv actually is capable of 23.976 which the Tizen app is able to use and it is the FireTv hardware that s unable to match the 23.976 framerate to the tv. Which then leads me to try to identify just what is happening when the Tizen app plays the file, which so far I have been unable to do. I was thinking of getting the new Shield tv which I could then set to 2160p at 30 at all times and disabling the refresh rate switching within Emby but as I said earlier playback at 30 was not as smooth as what I was seeing using the Tizen app. Also i'd rather not spend a lot of money on an additional box when I do not need to.... I am going to borrow one of the new Fire Sticks 4K over the weekend and see what it lists under display modes. But if I only knew what the Tizen app was doing it would clear this up........ Does the Tizen Emby app display the UI in 1080p? If so I assume it must switch over when 2160p content is played? Edited January 9, 2020 by Jibest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamES 890 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 What you are saying is mostly correct. I suspect with the Shield via HDMI you are having to deal with HDMI based sync and refresh rates between the two hardware devices, then also getting this to match the video frame rate. For the Samsung version of the app, you are not constrained or affected by HDMI, so the player will use the video frame rate if it is supported, otherwise we must transcode the video to make it play. Therefore, if it is DirectPlaying then it would be reasonable to expect that it is playing at the original video resolution and rate. All apps are limited to 1920x1080, even on a UHD panel, but the video player will play at 4K. You can see here 3840x2160 @ 60fps is supported : https://developer.samsung.com/tv/develop/specifications/media-specifications/2019-tv-video-specifications#19tv_standard-uhd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostByte 5049 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 You can see here 3840x2160 @ 60fps is supported : https://developer.samsung.com/tv/develop/specifications/media-specifications/2019-tv-video-specifications#19tv_standard-uhd I watched my first 4K 60fps movie the Gemini Man using the app the other day. The picture quality was excellent; the movie quality not so much 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibest 26 Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 I watched my first 4K 60fps movie the Gemini Man using the app the other day. The picture quality was excellent; the movie quality not so much Maybe this is the main reason for the doubt. When I view the movie on the tv running at 1080p on the Firetv & then watch it running on the Tizen app the difference is not really discernable (otherwise it would be obvious it is 4k). Perhaps it is due to the tv being only 43" or the upscaling on the 1080p being very good. What is the method the Tizen app uses when deciding what frame rate to run at compared to the app on the Firetv? The Firetv uses 2160/24* which judders, but in Tizen it does not? Surely this is because the Tizen app can either make use of 23.976 where the Firetv hardware cannot or it is choosing not to attempt to run at 23.976 (/24*) & instead runs at /25 or /30? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamES 890 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Maybe this is the main reason for the doubt. When I view the movie on the tv running at 1080p on the Firetv & then watch it running on the Tizen app the difference is not really discernable (otherwise it would be obvious it is 4k). Perhaps it is due to the tv being only 43" or the upscaling on the 1080p being very good. What is the method the Tizen app uses when deciding what frame rate to run at compared to the app on the Firetv? The Firetv uses 2160/24* which judders, but in Tizen it does not? Surely this is because the Tizen app can either make use of 23.976 where the Firetv hardware cannot or it is choosing not to attempt to run at 23.976 (/24*) & instead runs at /25 or /30? At 43" in is arguable whether you will really see much difference between 1080 and 4K, and yes, TV upscaling is pretty good these days. As mentioned previously, the inbuilt Samsung player does not do any conversion other than what the TV would do itself (such as upscaling). Therefore, if it is DirectPlaying then it will be playing at the native video framerate which is supported up to 60fps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibest 26 Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 So over the weekend I was able to test with a Fire Stick 4K and it worked perfectly. As the Firetv menus run in 4k resolution rather than 1080p there is no need for refresh rate switching to be running, the UHD content just plays. It doesn't play at 23.976 but I'm not concerned about that, it ran at 59. something (can't recall exactly). But it does not judder so that is good enough for me. The display mode in Emby confirms it is running in 2160 and the tv info also shows as 4k resolution so happy days Seems the older Firetv 2nd Gen 4k box is showing its age........ Still cannot prove whether the Tizen app is also running in 2160p but I can just use the FireStick so its no longer an issue (for me personally at least). One thing that was curious is when selecting a movie that has a UHD version and a 720p version on the Firestick it automatically selects the UHD version. On the Tizen app it selects the 720p version instead. May not mean anything at all but figured I would mention it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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