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Reaching MadVR quality with MPV ?


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#1 ybnl OFFLINE  

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 06:34 PM

Hey Guys. I'm a big Mad VR Fan. Image quality is very important to me. I use a now pretty old video projector as my main display (JVC HD 350). Source is an HTPC running Windows 10 and Emby Theater (i5 & RTX 1070).

 

- Using MadVR I could use a 3DLUT to calibrate my display. This way I can reach an image quality that is "out of the league" for a consumer product. A little sharpen is also a welcome addition.

 

- Now by reading different threads I feel I can reach something similar with mpv. I tried to find tutorials or more detailed infos but came across nothing very clear. So what I'm trying to achieve is this :

 

- Use a 3DLUT (64bits) through Mpv

- Add Sharpen

 

Is anybody achieved that ? I came across an app called GLOW - MPV Configurator and wondered if it's working with Emby.

 

Thanks in advance. 



#2 Guest_asrequested_* OFFLINE  

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 07:29 PM

You would use an icc with the 3dlut

https://mpv.io/manua...s-icc-cache-dir

And sharpen

https://mpv.io/manua...options-sharpen

#3 ybnl OFFLINE  

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 04:08 AM

OK. Will try that. But that means that I need to convert LUT to ICC. So far I've had unreliable result with ICC profile. It seems that there is a color space conversion happening inside MPV. Matrix of the icc seems 8bit as banding suddenly appears. Will try again and compare with madVR.

 

Compared sharpen between MadVr and MPV and Mpv's one is very digital. What I really like in MadVr is the nature of the sharpen itself.

 

Guess I'm stuck to MadVr :)


Edited by ybnl, 06 December 2019 - 06:08 AM.


#4 Guest_asrequested_* OFFLINE  

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 11:10 AM

What do have in your mpv conf? It sounds like you've got some conflicts. I use an icc, and my picture is fantastic.

Edited by Doofus, 06 December 2019 - 11:11 AM.


#5 ybnl OFFLINE  

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 07:23 AM

I'm afraid I'm not as patient as you : Editing mpv.conf, looking at the result. Exiting. Re-editing mpv.conf. Not being sure things works...

I feel like I'm loosing time (which I haven't). I'm considering ditching Emby since the removal of MadVR (this was THE REASON why I became lifetime). Using MPC-HC inside Emby is still clunky. Using mpv.conf takes too much time, no "real" tutorial on line, too much code oriented. I guess it's a farewell ! 



#6 Luke OFFLINE  

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 09:31 AM

It only takes a few minutes to get great results.

#7 Guest_asrequested_* OFFLINE  

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 11:13 AM

I wonder if it's time re-evaluate the settings in Theater?

#8 ybnl OFFLINE  

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 11:52 AM

For you it takes few minutes to reach great result. Me, I spent few hours with mixed results. Using Mpv + MadVR gives mind-blowing results in 10 minutes (on an old JVC HD 350). Same thing with Jriver (which I really don't like but well... you know... Got MadVR). 

 

My feeling is :

 

- No GUI

- No Tutorial or Walktrough. Or you need to read a 100 page forum topic.

- Need to edit .conf and then relaunch Emby. Slow, painful, unreliable and you need to do screen grabs to see the differences. You're losing 99% of the planet !

 

I'm pretty sure that if you documented clearly and/or provided several .conf with walkthrough you might gain more users that are interested in image quality. You could even integrate a bunch of settings/presets inside the player. Then you could advertise Emby as the best quality media player. 

 

This is why I'm using an HTPC. Image quality. 


Edited by ybnl, 26 December 2019 - 11:54 AM.


#9 Guest_asrequested_* OFFLINE  

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 01:25 PM

You don't need to restart the app, only playback. Maybe if you tell us what you're trying to achieve, we can help. I asked if you could post your mpv.conf, so I could help you quickly.

#10 Guest_asrequested_* OFFLINE  

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 01:27 PM

One user did a lot of experimenting.

https://emby.media/c...e-3#entry793202

I have, too.

#11 ybnl OFFLINE  

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 02:22 PM

Hey Doofus. Thanks for offering your help. I deleted my mpv.conf because I didn't like what I was seeing and planned to restart from scratch. I was frustrated too :)

 

Tried the mpv.conf you pointed in your last message but it looks not very good/natural. Might be because it's "anime" oriented settings :

Remember this config was solely geared toward animated content, which requires very aggressive filtering to reach the standard I wanted. Live-action content will not look right with these values set.

 

The last part of the message summarize it. Invader 115 went back to MadVr :)

ABOVE ALL ELSE, remember that I DO NOT consider the above config "finished" and that it's only there for use as a foundation. Anyone interested in pushing MPV's limits will have to do a lot of tinkering and testing of their own. Moreover, I do not intend to keep messing around with this because I've got my old MPC-BE + MadVR + SVP configuration working without the problem I made this thread for.

 

All in all, I feel that if I want to reach MadVr quality I might need to dive in the settings and learn them. You could help me but it will require a lot of time on my side to experience/understand it. And I might not reach what I'm looking for. Thanks a lot for taking the time to answer.



#12 Guest_asrequested_* OFFLINE  

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 05:05 PM

This has been discussed before, but I think we should make some profiles for quick application. When I get some time, I'll run some tests.

Anyone with knowledge of the mpv settings, I would appreciate some help. I'm thinking not having individual scale options and stuff like that. I think most people don't have a good understanding of how to apply them. But a group of settings that will improve picture quality, overall. A combination of debanding, scaling etc. Like the gpu-hq option, that can be added to the Theater settings, and easily applied without conflicts. Also add simple to use options like sharpening. And then have a small description outlining its purpose.

I think it's time we did something like is. Luke, thoughts?
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#13 Guest_asrequested_* OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 12:25 AM

Apparently nobody wants this. Curious. I thought the madvr junkies would chime in. Good to know. I won't waste my time on it.



#14 ybnl OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 08:04 AM

I'm afraid MadVR junkies trust MadVR blindly.

 

Somehow I might agree with them. I'm using Jriver. Hating it, but image quality (due to MadVR) is insane. I recently switched back to MadVR (used emby as it is because I didn't have the time to configure something else). The whole family see the difference ! I guess at the end it is about what you want emby to become.

 

- Plex did a difficult move but a smart one. In a couple of years nobody will host films with a server. It won't be convenient anymore. It will cost less money to subscribe to something like Netflix or a similar service (compared to having a server, hdd, maintenance). Discs will disappears (Blu-ray's, DVD). No rip = No Mediaplayers.

 

- So in a world where streaming is going to be the rule what will make the difference ? If Emby, Plex, Kobi becomes frontend to streaming service what will make you choose emby ? Me, I'm gonna choose the best image quality and sound quality ! Most people will choose ease of use (I might as well). You've got both, you've got a winner.


Edited by ybnl, 28 December 2019 - 08:06 AM.


#15 Guest_asrequested_* OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:30 AM

Well, I disagree with almost everything you said :)

#16 lightsout OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 12:02 PM

I know it's a moot point but it seems like Emby could really have an advantage over the competition if madvr was an option.

Still a bummer that it was taken away. I imagine for most Htpc users it makes Kodi to go to. Wink has its own limits with madvr.

#17 Guest_asrequested_* OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 12:48 PM

I honestly don't understand the madvr hype. It doesn't/can't play anything. So it's at the mercy of whatever the back end decoders are doing. Which will vary. It can only be used on one platform. It's so bizarre that people find it easier install and configure a player, then install/add madvr and configure that on top of the player, than writing a few lines of text and using better more configurable decoders. I think there's a fare bit of indoctrination, involved.

#18 lightsout OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 06:32 PM

I honestly don't understand the madvr hype. It doesn't/can't play anything. So it's at the mercy of whatever the back end decoders are doing. Which will vary. It can only be used on one platform. It's so bizarre that people find it easier install and configure a player, then install/add madvr and configure that on top of the player, than writing a few lines of text and using better more configurable decoders. I think there's a fare bit of indoctrination, involved.

There may be, but what it does, it does better than anything else. And with a gui its easy to see and change what you like.



#19 Guest_asrequested_* OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 07:09 PM

There may be, but what it does, it does better than anything else. And with a gui its easy to see and change what you like.

 

That's what I'm saying....it doesn't! The only real difference is that madshi has packaged everything in a way that he finds best. You really think he is the only guy in his field that does what he does and he does it much better than everyone else? That's a huge slap in the face for the developers of ffmpeg, mpv, VLC and all of the rest of them. 

 

Here, read this post he made with mpv. 

 

https://github.com/m...mpv/issues/6213

 

They are all on equal par. Most people just don't want to take the time to learn, and then blame the software for not being as good. It's the same discussion between Linux and Windows users. They both achieve the same outcome (with some variation), but some guys love using the command line and others prefer a UI. Each has things the other can't do, because it's a different platform. If you want HDR playback on a PC (not tone mapping), you have to use Windows 10. No other PC platform supports it. 

 

With video, there are also going to be a wide range tastes. There is no accounting for that. Just because a person likes what A does more than B, doesn't make A, better.

 

MadVR is just different, not better. 



#20 ybnl OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 07:37 PM

Sadly, I'm not able to compare MadVR and Mpv. Because learning Mpv is going to take me hours (maybe days) while I achieved a wonderful result in 10 minutes using MadVR (excluding the generation of the profile/lut). 

 

I'm watching films. Tinkering with presets and mpv.conf is not the reason why I purchased an Emby Premiere account : It was because I tried Emby, discovered its MadVR integration and I was blown away by the result.

 

Now I understand everybody wait for different things. But surely you understand that MadVR is straightforward compared to mpv's .conf. (I mean for normal human being).

 

But this is not going anywhere. You said before that you disagree with everything I said. That makes sense. I stopped using Emby because I was disappointed. You're Emby's "legendary" ! We cannot agree :)






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