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3.0.172 Closed Caption


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#1 skidmarks OFFLINE  

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 11:46 AM

This release it appears captioning and the ability to turn off captioning has changed?  Wasn't there a 3rd item available if you hit the down key while watching a TV show?  Next to the gear and ! icon?

I used this to turn off closed captioning on my older roku. 

 

With them (roku) hijacking the * button it changed your porting of the button.  It does bring up the options screen (Closed Captioning / Aud Track / Vol Mode) nicely.  It does not work with my 3500X (4111-09) stick.

 

With this stick it brings up a PLAYBACKSETTINGS screen very very briefly.  Not enough time to even try an figure out what was in there.  So i am trapped watching subtitles on this roku.

 

While i am on this subject...  On the main screen of a TV episode there is the selection box "Subtitles".  This will vary, but i have Off (None) and ENG (SRT).  In theory if i select Off (none) shouldn't that just not even let subtitles play in the first place for that episode?

 

OR

 

If my Captioning is turned off at the server level for a user (is set to smart mode)...  Shouldn't it be ignoring ENG (srt) when the default language is English making all of this a moot point?

 

I also have the roku closed captioning settings set to off.

 

Anyway, should i be contacting roku for the issue with the 3500X * button?

 

I haven't seen any other issues with .172

 

Thanks Guys!


Edited by skidmarks, 24 June 2019 - 12:02 PM.


#2 ebr OFFLINE  

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 12:19 PM

@speechles - I thought we removed all processing of the '*' button during playback a while back...

 

Skidmarks - nothing has changed in this area with this version.  But captions and subtitles are two different things.  You will get our subtitles button if the Emby item has subtitles associated with it.



#3 speechles OFFLINE  

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 12:39 PM

@speechles - I thought we removed all processing of the '*' button during playback a while back...

 

Skidmarks - nothing has changed in this area with this version.  But captions and subtitles are two different things.  You will get our subtitles button if the Emby item has subtitles associated with it.

 

@skidmarks Why are you using the * button during video playback? When video plays you cannot use * as Roku does not allow developers to intercept the * button anymore while video plays (and incorrectly with 9.1 firmware while audio plays).

 

To get the subtitles or audio streams to change press DOWN and use the OSD. Find the audio streams and subtitle icons on the bottom row of the OSD and use those. Those will work.

 

When the Roku plays video we cannot trap the *. I mean we can on certain models but we were told DO NOT attempt to. So we do not. You must get the normal Roku menu when using * and playing video. Lately Roku incorrectly made this change to apply to Audio. This was a mistake and they will fix that. But right now the problem you have is you are using * when you should press DOWN and use the OSD.

 

Let us know if this doesn't solve the problem. You are one of our biggest influencers. How you act towards things defines how others will.

 

If it isn't intuitive that using the OSD and pressing DOWN on the remote is how to change audio streams and subtitles and people expect to use * we might need to pop up some kind of a helper screen before video plays that explains this. Perhaps when the person first plays a video after the app starts it pops up a brief warning that the * should not be used and the OSD (on screen display) should instead be used to change audio streams and subtitles. That might be what we need to do.

 

We want this intuitive and using the Roku * menu will only allow selecting what the device can see as switchable. When direct play a video you can't select subtitles that need to be side-streamed.

 

In other words you can't use external SRT with the Roku * menu as it doesn't know those subtitles exist. The only way to have full access to all streams is using the Emby OSD on the Roku app and using the audio stream and subtitle buttons found within. 


Edited by speechles, 24 June 2019 - 12:41 PM.


#4 speechles OFFLINE  

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 12:46 PM

While i am on this subject...  On the main screen of a TV episode there is the selection box "Subtitles".  This will vary, but i have Off (None) and ENG (SRT).  In theory if i select Off (none) shouldn't that just not even let subtitles play in the first place for that episode?

 

OR

 

If my Captioning is turned off at the server level for a user (is set to smart mode)...  Shouldn't it be ignoring ENG (srt) when the default language is English making all of this a moot point?

 

The app respects what the server tells it. When you change the subtitle or audio stream the app tells the server what it did. The server then sends back the stream and tells the app the new default to use for audio stream and subtitle. It is always the server telling the app what to do. Never the other way around.

 

The only time a mistake is made is on the detail screen. If you change those drop downs for version, audio, and subtitle but do not play the item then your changes are not remembered. The only time the server remembers is when an item is played. Only then do your changes "stick" otherwise they will be lost.


Edited by speechles, 24 June 2019 - 12:48 PM.


#5 ebr OFFLINE  

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 12:49 PM

With this stick it brings up a PLAYBACKSETTINGS screen very very briefly.  Not enough time to even try an figure out what was in there.  

 

That behavior implies that we are still trying to circumvent the '*' button during playback.  Speechles, please be sure this isn't the case.



#6 speechles OFFLINE  

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 12:52 PM

That behavior implies that we are still trying to circumvent the '*' button during playback.  Speechles, please be sure this isn't the case.

 

Why did we even try to capture the * (options) in the OnKeyEvent?

 

Should I just get rid of that part? That is where the issue lies...

 

@ebr

 

Reference: Fix #496: [Video Player] Stop options * trapping


Edited by speechles, 24 June 2019 - 12:56 PM.


#7 ebr OFFLINE  

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 12:53 PM

Why did we even try to capture the * (options) in the OnKeyEvent?

 

Because anyone who uses a Roku will press that button to get to the settings.  So, in the early days, we were able to capture that and direct to our OSD instead.  Now we cannot do that so we just need to be sure to get rid of any attempt to do so.  This was a directive a while back and I thought it had already been done.



#8 speechles OFFLINE  

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 01:07 PM

Because anyone who uses a Roku will press that button to get to the settings.  So, in the early days, we were able to capture that and direct to our OSD instead.  Now we cannot do that so we just need to be sure to get rid of any attempt to do so.  This was a directive a while back and I thought it had already been done.

 

Their firmware exposes the hook on some devices so we can still trap the *. This is what is happening is Roku is very inconsistent on when they trap the * and we can't intercept versus when they don't. It is this causing problems because this is a regression happening on the streaming stick. Roku must have had to roll back that firmware for some major issue and re-inherited an old bug. Now it exposes itself and we see this as that flicker when your pressing *. This won't occur on an Roku ultra. It might occur on Roku 3 as it cannot run the full openGL overlays required to produce that menu. It still uses the clumsy old SDKA menu.

 

So to really work around this issue the only sensible/rational/logical thing to do is remove all traces of trapping options within the OnKeyEvent of the Video Player. That should finally solve the issue once and for all.

 

We did address this once. But that was merely to tell if the Hack required to make it so we could still use the options button was needed. We adjusted the hack to take into account both major and minor of the firmware version. It was incorrectly thinking any firmware under minor version 2 was require the hack. So when firmware 7.2 was there this was Okay. Then firmware 8.0 and OMG it broke. So we adjusted that logic then and this is what you remember. We never entirely tore out the logic to trap the options in the OnKeyEvent. That is what we are doing now and it is the right thing to do. ^_^



#9 skidmarks OFFLINE  

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 01:28 PM

@speechles - I thought we removed all processing of the '*' button during playback a while back...

 

Skidmarks - nothing has changed in this area with this version.  But captions and subtitles are two different things.  You will get our subtitles button if the Emby item has subtitles associated with it.

Coming from the world of TV...  Aren't subtitles the same basic thing as closed captioning on TV?  I guess the difference is closed captioning is embedded onto line 21 of the show.  And my issue is i dont want to see external eng.srt files.  So i need to rethink the nomenclature when addressing what i want to see and dont want to see.   

 

The * menu i was referring to is roku's.  Except for that one older stick.  I can use that menu to turn of my, i guess, TV subtitles (external SRT file) for episodes. 

 

@speechles I thought there was another way when the show starts to play (i was doing it very recently) but i sure cant seem to find it now. 

 

I'll go hunt around and mash some more buttons. 

 

I guess i need to go look at the server settings again.  With my realization of closed captioning and subtitles being two separate creatures!

 

I'm thinking a roku remote control button road map is in my future after i figure out what button does what where...  like my old technical writing days!  :-)



#10 speechles OFFLINE  

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 01:31 PM

Correct, the app works perfectly with that built-in Roku audio and caption menu. You just cannot enable all the subtitles(captions) that may be present. You can always disable subtitles that are not burned into the video stream through that menu. But If they are burned into the video stream you need to use the Emby OSD subtitle changer dealy-bob thing-ah-ma-jig and turn them off (none).

 

Technically captions would include scene descriptions and other visual clues to a scene a deaf listener may need. Captions do not cross languages usually. They are a benefit for deaf listeners.

 

Subtitles on the other hand cross languages. It is simply translated from spoken language A into text as subtitle language B. Most people when they use the word captions mean subtitles. The two do have the same nomenclature but they have different meanings. Captions assume the listener cannot hear. Subtitles assume the listener cannot understand.


Edited by speechles, 24 June 2019 - 01:38 PM.


#11 ebr OFFLINE  

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 02:04 PM

Coming from the world of TV...  Aren't subtitles the same basic thing as closed captioning on TV?  

 

 

From your perspective,  yes, they are basically the same as they are a text representation of the audio.  But from an implementation perspective they are very different.  Closed Captions are a part of the video stream and extracted in real time and, often, are generated in real time (like for a live news broadcast).  We have full support for subtitles but only limited support for actual closed captions at this point in time.



#12 cybergrimes OFFLINE  

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 07:47 PM

I've been struggling with this a bit lately. I've got a lot of files that still have PGS subs so they are burned in by transcode. I can't seem to get them turned off once turned on, there is no subtitle icon on the OSD. If I go back out and set the pre-selection to "Off (None)" they are still present on playback.

Sent a log & here's some screens showing my pre-selection & the lack of OSD option.

d3447bc34fff498a1abe4ddb4ecaca5f.jpg28f7f13ed72891a785a8394ab006ebf6.jpgda178bb2323088b9465d97c824ffcedb.jpg

#13 speechles OFFLINE  

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 07:52 PM

We have fixes in the pipeline already for this issue:

#508 fix subtitles on details view.

#509 fix subtitles on video player.

 

These will make the next update to Beta. Apologies for any inconvenience. Thanks for reporting. ^_^


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#14 cybergrimes OFFLINE  

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 07:53 PM

Great, thank you!

#15 bizarro252 OFFLINE  

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:38 PM

We have fixes in the pipeline already for this issue:

#508 fix subtitles on details view.

#509 fix subtitles on video player.

 

These will make the next update to Beta. Apologies for any inconvenience. Thanks for reporting. ^_^

 

Hi @speechles
Where can I go to track these fixes and what versions of beta they are applied to?  I am having the above issue as well on the stable version and want to try it on the Beta but unsure which version got these cut in.  Thanks!



#16 speechles OFFLINE  

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 02:23 PM

Hi @speechles
Where can I go to track these fixes and what versions of beta they are applied to?  I am having the above issue as well on the stable version and want to try it on the Beta but unsure which version got these cut in.  Thanks!

 

There is only one store version and one beta version.

 

Those fixes I believe already made it into the Emby Beta of the Roku app. You just need to update your Roku and it will suck in the new updates naturally. The beta and store version can exist on your Roku homescreen at the same time. Updates to the Beta will eventually be pushed to the Roku store to approve the update. The Beta does not imply broken, buggy, bad.. It implies we work on that version first so to get new features, bug fixes, and updates before the others to tell us if we did things right or wrong please use the Beta. Thanks. :)

 

Any other questions? We value feedback and ways to improve.



#17 bizarro252 OFFLINE  

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 02:30 PM

 

There is only one store version and one beta version.

 

Those fixes I believe already made it into the Emby Beta of the Roku app. You just need to update your Roku and it will suck in the new updates naturally. The beta and store version can exist on your Roku homescreen at the same time. Updates to the Beta will eventually be pushed to the Roku store to approve the update. The Beta does not imply broken, buggy, bad.. It implies we work on that version first so to get new features, bug fixes, and updates before the others to tell us if we did things right or wrong please use the Beta. Thanks. :)

 

Any other questions? We value feedback and ways to improve.

 

Hi speechles,

I am indeed running both at the same time, will be spending most of my time in Beta to attempt to help out :)  Running both the beta Roku app and beta server right now so I will be on the lookout!

 

I meant how to reference those fixes (508 and 509) to the version of Beta.  I see this thread listing out the release notes (https://emby.media/c...-release-notes/) but wasn't sure if there was a way to see the list of fixes (I assume there is a list since you have them numbered) that shows which version of beta they make it in to.  Unless you mean fixes go live immediately in the beta version as you publish them?

 

Thanks!


Edited by bizarro252, 07 August 2019 - 02:31 PM.


#18 speechles OFFLINE  

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 03:00 PM

Hi speechles,

I am indeed running both at the same time, will be spending most of my time in Beta to attempt to help out :)  Running both the beta Roku app and beta server right now so I will be on the lookout!

 

I meant how to reference those fixes (508 and 509) to the version of Beta.  I see this thread listing out the release notes (https://emby.media/c...-release-notes/) but wasn't sure if there was a way to see the list of fixes (I assume there is a list since you have them numbered) that shows which version of beta they make it in to.  Unless you mean fixes go live immediately in the beta version as you publish them?

 

Thanks!

 

Usually pretty quickly after I mention that I leave reference to the fix #. Once it has a # it is submitted to the code base for the DEV branch. This is absorbed once it is reviewed. I would assume since it was a fix to subtitles it went in the very next Beta. In fact I can see it did. So we are quick on some, some of the others there are a few questions and things get left out that we find during review. Then these review issues are addressed and the fix is pushed. So some fixes yes I may announce that might take a few Beta as unanticipated things may happen. Eric might be busy. Etc. We are a team and as such we all also get time off and time for lives. But we do proceed forward with fixes like this immediately. So I would expect this not to change now or in the future. Our days off do not mean bugs are cool or we get to not care. It just means we are people not machines. ^_^

 

We are honest. I know the other guys on the team are. We strive to provide you the best media experience possible on that platform. We strive. When is it perfect? Never.. exactly.. I strive to make Roku the best platform Emby works on. This may include features that others thought were not possible. It might include unorthodox things. Outside the box. Uniquely Emby. This is how we are different than everybody else.


Edited by speechles, 07 August 2019 - 03:03 PM.

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#19 bizarro252 OFFLINE  

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 03:03 PM

Got it, thanks!  I didn't know if those numbers referred to a github/jira, or something :)  Not a problem will keep my eyes open, really liking everything so far and my wife is happy to have a DVR that WORKS before football starts :P



#20 speechles OFFLINE  

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 03:56 PM

We plan on improve the Emby DVR on Roku even more. We right now are in an effort to increase consistency amongst apps and Roku was a bit of a non-conformist. We are address those concerns and it is on the hotplate to begin serving LiveTV management to the table and address that concern in a logical, consistent, and familiar interface. In other words, LiveTV on Roku will get better. You will have more options for LiveTV for scheduling and all the other bells and whistles you want. We are focused on LiveTV as a priority but we must first get the Roku to look like everything else. It is an Emby universe and the Roku had some design things that did not match (think icons and some text). Other than that the Roku looks not too shabby. But it can always, and will always get better.

 

If you see a direction we should focus to improve please give us that direction. We value feedback. We want to know where we exceed and where we fail. Thanks.

 

Tell your wife we want her happy too. Our goal is both of you equally get to sit with your feet up without any arguments over how we did anything. It just works. Having more control over DVR of course increase WAF factor x10 and we will go there soon on Roku. :)


Edited by speechles, 07 August 2019 - 03:58 PM.

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