Growing DRM Channels

[jaycapz 3]

Hi all

 

So this is not a new topic I know. I am seeing a huge spike of channels being tagged as DMR. I literally have less than half now tagged as DMR. Altice/Optimum is really restricting me big time. Any solutions on the horizon? I really don't want to rely on hdhr app to watch these stations going forward.

 

Thanks

Jason

[Carlo 4330]

Reply via PM.

[jaycapz 3]

Reply via PM.

 

Thanks for the response, however I really hope the emby folks have a long term to support the encryption needed to allow DRM.  Its really b.s. that 80% of all my channels are DRM, so basically renders this whole experiment pretty close to dead for me.  I guess I need to reassess my options, strangely I did not notice how many of my stations were vanishing until 1 of my more popular stations vanished just this past month.

[arche 174]

Only thing I can think of is waiting until the Prime 6 is released, they say this year, but we all know how that is going...

[Carlo 4330]

Thanks for the response, however I really hope the emby folks have a long term to support the encryption needed to allow DRM.  Its really b.s. that 80% of all my channels are DRM, so basically renders this whole experiment pretty close to dead for me.  I guess I need to reassess my options, strangely I did not notice how many of my stations were vanishing until 1 of my more popular stations vanished just this past month.

It would be next to impossible to get Emby certified to work with DRM channels.

 

It would be far easier to switch cable providers (if possible).  You should look into Verizon FIOS or Xfinity as both of them use DRM sparingly and usually only on the HBO, Starz, Cinemax, Showtime owned channels.

 

I got free Starz as a promotion when I switched to Xfinity.  Here's my total list of DRM channels out of 516 channels:

MPLEX

STZENC

STZENAC

STZENSU

STZENCL

STZENBK

STZEWSS

SUNDANC

INDIE

RETRO

FLIX

 

So 6 Starz channels and their sister stations MetroPlex, IndiePlex, RetroPlex. Flix is a Showtime owned channel. Sundance is owned by AMC.  So besides those movie channels everything else is usable in Emby.  FIOS was basically the same.

[Carlo 4330]

Only thing I can think of is waiting until the Prime 6 is released, they say this year, but we all know how that is going...

Prime 6 won't have any affect on DRM channels.

[arche 174]

Prime 6 won't have any affect on DRM channels.

 

According to there website https://www.silicondust.com/product/hdhomerun-prime-6/ it is supposed to work with the DRM channels. At least that was the hype is you'll be able to use your movie channels and other DRM channels. I honestly thought this was the hold up for the release was licensing for the DRM channels. 

[ebr 14910]

According to there website https://www.silicondust.com/product/hdhomerun-prime-6/ it is supposed to work with the DRM channels. At least that was the hype is you'll be able to use your movie channels and other DRM channels. I honestly thought this was the hold up for the release was licensing for the DRM channels. 

 

If it does, it would only be via some sort of proprietary app or hardware that Silicon Dust provides I would imagine.  Every device that touches a DRM channel has to be certified to be sure it is respecting the encryption.  That pretty much means you can't use generic interfaces like a browser or something like Emby.

[arche 174]

If it does, it would only be via some sort of proprietary app or hardware that Silicon Dust provides I would imagine.  Every device that touches a DRM channel has to be certified to be sure it is respecting the encryption.  That pretty much means you can't use generic interfaces like a browser or something like Emby.

 

This is troubling if the software is the only was to get the DRM channels, and (correct me if I'm wrong) I thought the current software you can watch DRM channels with a prime box. I guess this conversation https://forum.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71212 had me thinking it would be more based off the cablecard and the new prime box. There are a few other threads about it, but this one made more sense to me, or at least I thought.

[ebr 14910]

This is troubling if the software is the only was to get the DRM channels, and (correct me if I'm wrong) I thought the current software you can watch DRM channels with a prime box. I guess this conversation https://forum.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71212 had me thinking it would be more based off the cablecard and the new prime box. There are a few other threads about it, but this one made more sense to me, or at least I thought.

 

From the content provider/owner's perspective, there is no point in encrypting/protecting the content at one end if some configuration will spit out a full-quality unprotected stream.  Therefore, they require everything the stream passes through to be certified to respect the encryption and not allow someone to just siphon off and record the stream.  Even your TV has been certified to not allow someone to connect some other type of device to the HDMI cable and get access to the clear stream.

 

If any link in the chain is open, there is no chain.

[Carlo 4330]

According to there website https://www.silicondust.com/product/hdhomerun-prime-6/ it is supposed to work with the DRM channels. At least that was the hype is you'll be able to use your movie channels and other DRM channels. I honestly thought this was the hold up for the release was licensing for the DRM channels. 

It's just a 6 channel version of the 3 channel prime as far as the end user is concerned.  It will only need 1 cable card for all 6 channels which is a plus for many.  However, if you know what you're doing you can usually get 2 cable cards for the price of one plus 1 $ from most cable providers thanks to TIVO and their 2 cable card DVR.

 

I'm not liking some of the specs they've published.  For example the 3 Channel has a Gb interface while the 6 channel is only 100 Mb. That can potentially be troubling (on paper).  I just looked at my prime recording two channels and I'm using 16.5 and 17.2 Mb for those streams.  6 times this and it's troubling.  However most of the channels past your OTA channels are H.264 encoding which is 2.5 to 4Mb so I guess it depends on the channels you record.

 

But even with the 3 channel Prime you can view and record DRM content with the right software.  You can view these channels with the Silicon Dust software on PC or Android for example.

 

There are Chinese boxes you can buy that successfully break the chain ebr was talking about that allow you to record these channels with a capture card but IMHO it's just not worth it.  To many other "easy" ways to get the same channels easier these days which everyone knows about using M3U files from "other" providers.

 

The key to good cable recording is to have a provider that doesn't go nuts DRMing all the channels but reserve that for the premium channels.  Both Comcast/Xfinity and Verizon FIOS are both good about only DRMing mandatory channels.

[arche 174]

I'm not liking some of the specs they've published.  For example the 3 Channel has a Gb interface while the 6 channel is only 100 Mb. That can potentially be troubling (on paper).  I just looked at my prime recording two channels and I'm using 16.5 and 17.2 Mb for those streams.  6 times this and it's troubling.  However most of the channels past your OTA channels are H.264 encoding which is 2.5 to 4Mb so I guess it depends on the channels you record.

 

Just based on this, has me rethinking the prime 6 at all. I did get my first cable card from xfinity for free, the second might be worth it on the prime 3. Thank you @@cayars & @@ebr for be patient and explaining this. 

[jaycapz 3]

From the content provider/owner's perspective, there is no point in encrypting/protecting the content at one end if some configuration will spit out a full-quality unprotected stream.  Therefore, they require everything the stream passes through to be certified to respect the encryption and not allow someone to just siphon off and record the stream.  Even your TV has been certified to not allow someone to connect some other type of device to the HDMI cable and get access to the clear stream.

 

If any link in the chain is open, there is no chain.

 

 

Makes perfect sense, there is no way to consider passing DRM through specific platforms?  Given the nature of browsers I get it, but why not via your own app on specific platforms? So for instance, android platform why would it be any different than how hdhomerun is handling it via mobile devices?  Is it because its their device, their software they can argue they have a direct end-to-end control of that stream?  

[Carlo 4330]

Makes perfect sense, there is no way to consider passing DRM through specific platforms?  Given the nature of browsers I get it, but why not via your own app on specific platforms? So for instance, android platform why would it be any different than how hdhomerun is handling it via mobile devices?  Is it because its their device, their software they can argue they have a direct end-to-end control of that stream?  

Nutshell oversimplification of what needs to happen is to get your apps certified.  This would mean every piece of software from the HDHomeRun to the actual display.  As soon as you see something like ffmpeg it's disqualified from certification.  The whole path needs to be uncircumventionable to get the algorithms and codes needed to decrypt the DRM.  Everything decrypted is still "watermarked" with your unique code.  If copies were ever found in the wild with your unique key then you would get your codes revoked as well as your bond and would be legally responsible as well.

 

Apps like Plex and Emby just aren't ever going to be DRMable in this manner without significant rewrites.  Besides the bond(s) needed the certification cost is high and ongoing.  I can't really see it every being worth it to this type of platform.

[Spaceboy 2493]

Thanks for the response, however I really hope the emby folks have a long term to support the encryption needed to allow DRM. Its really b.s. that 80% of all my channels are DRM, so basically renders this whole experiment pretty close to dead for me. I guess I need to reassess my options, strangely I did not notice how many of my stations were vanishing until 1 of my more popular stations vanished just this past month.

never going to happen. You need to find drm unrestricted ways. Iptv if you are open to it. Certainly I only use iptv because I object to the method of delivery not the cost

[BillOatman 500]

Thanks for the response, however I really hope the emby folks have a long term to support the encryption needed to allow DRM.  Its really b.s. that 80% of all my channels are DRM, so basically renders this whole experiment pretty close to dead for me.  I guess I need to reassess my options, strangely I did not notice how many of my stations were vanishing until 1 of my more popular stations vanished just this past month.

Not a particularly feasible request.  The DRM road for software is long, expensive, and filled with crater sized potholes.

 

I investigated getting a cablecard and a silicondust device once upon a time for my cable provider (Time Warner now Spectrum).  Found out that the DRM was setup so tight (and incorrectly IMO) that all I would have been able to get were the same channels I can get over the air with an antenna.  Totally pointless.  I contacted the provider and politely submitted a request for more reasonable DRM, but it was eventually rejected (person on the phone told me they were trying to eliminate cablecard usage, but by law had to offer one so this was their plan, DRM making it useless).

 

Some cable providers are reasonable when it comes to DRM.  FIOS and Verizon if memory serves for example.  But DRM just blows, don't count on it being useful and you won't be disappointed.

[jaycapz 3]

Yea - I get all points being made here.  At the end of the day it hurts platforms such as this, so even if they can't or won't pursue a solution.  They will lose revenue from a large base looking to expand use of their cable cards and cut costs around set top boxes.  I love the Emby platform so I only want to see it succeed.  My fear is that in a world where we are heavy streaming, and days of hording downloaded or ripped movie & music content will be a thing of the past.  So what I am getting at is the slipping relevant use-cases for the platform, IPTV is difficult but still viable option at the moment.  Just have to hope they continue to thrive.

 

With Optimum Cable 75% of my channels are DRM, only lower channels and less popular stations are not DRM.  I am going to throw as many corporate complaints around as I can, they are hiding behind "the channel provider agreements say whats DRM..".  There must be more within the Cable Card agreements and other consumer rights laws that will permit more to be done here.  

 

I am starting to research IPTV options to fill some of these voids (within reasonable cost).  I know the cable companies also see revenue loss if folks ditch the cable boxes for this option, another good reason to try and stall the movement.