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User Groups or single logon with multiple profiles


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sross44
4 hours ago, rbjtech said:

Is this available as a remote client ?

if local - the AndroidTV/FireTV client does this today - you can switch between users within the client just fine without the need to login ?

 

Yes on the Jellyfin app on the Shield (so assuming Fire TV would be the same). For Emby, it doesn't save it on remote logins though. Which is the problem for a lot of people. 

Edited by sross44
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2 hours ago, sross44 said:

Yes on the Jellyfin app on the Shield (so assuming Fire TV would be the same). For Emby, it doesn't save it on remote logins though. Which is the problem for a lot of people. 

Hi, we do save credentials. Have you checked the options in the app?

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15 hours ago, sross44 said:

actually has this pretty perfectly setup right now. If I log in to each user via their quick connect or just with a password, I can close the app, open it back up, switch users to anyone who was logged in

With our default setting to only show logins for people who have logged in on that device before, we behave exactly that same way right now.

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sross44
6 hours ago, Luke said:

Hi, we do save credentials. Have you checked the options in the app?

You save credentials for remote connections? If so, I'm missing that option in the app unless I'm not seeing it? 

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16 minutes ago, sross44 said:

You save credentials for remote connections? If so, I'm missing that option in the app unless I'm not seeing it? 

It's the remember me option while signing in.

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sross44
5 hours ago, Luke said:

It's the remember me option while signing in.

There’s no remember me option on the app? This is what I see when you log in and it asks for a password…. 

 

 

48C645A0-BB44-4F1A-9565-14028416B45D.jpeg

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IIRC the ATV only saves the last user that was logged in.
You're are trying to switch from one user to another one so it will ask for the PW for the user you're switching to.
Did you have a look at the settings, there are some options which I don't fully recall.

@ebr, please correct me if I'm wrong.

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sross44
5 hours ago, neik said:

IIRC the ATV only saves the last user that was logged in.
You're are trying to switch from one user to another one so it will ask for the PW for the user you're switching to.
Did you have a look at the settings, there are some options which I don't fully recall.

@ebr, please correct me if I'm wrong.

That’s what I’ve been talking about though. Use cases where there are multiple people wanting to switch accounts etc remotely. It’s why when I mentioned that jellyfin or Plex can do it, I mentioned that they were all remote sessions. 

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6 hours ago, neik said:

IIRC the ATV only saves the last user that was logged in.
You're are trying to switch from one user to another one so it will ask for the PW for the user you're switching to.
Did you have a look at the settings, there are some options which I don't fully recall.

@ebr, please correct me if I'm wrong.

That's how the entire system works.  The last user for each server is saved.

8 hours ago, sross44 said:

There’s no remember me option on the app?

The default setting in that app is to remember the last user logged in to each server.  It has an additional option to always login as a specific user no matter who logged in last (nice for a shared device with kids in the house).  These options are in the app "Startup" settings.

Remote and local makes no difference as far as saving credentials goes.  I think where you may be getting confused there is that, with local users, it is possible to not require a password.

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sross44
1 hour ago, ebr said:

That's how the entire system works.  The last user for each server is saved.

The default setting in that app is to remember the last user logged in to each server.  It has an additional option to always login as a specific user no matter who logged in last (nice for a shared device with kids in the house).  These options are in the app "Startup" settings.

Remote and local makes no difference as far as saving credentials goes.  I think where you may be getting confused there is that, with local users, it is possible to not require a password.

@ebr I think that's what everyone is kind of getting at. It'd be nice for users to not have to re-enter a password each time they're using the app. Remote users are often family members, parents, kids, etc that entering a password like that is difficult each time or simply to inconvenient. I know that sounds pretty ridiculous but it's true. From an ease of use standpoint, even remote users should be able to log in once, and have multiple crendentials (user and password) saved. If you end up switching servers, then yes, you should have to re-enter passwords etc. But like I said above, there's something to be said for both Plex and Jellyfin when you can just easily switch between user accounts wether on a local client or a remote client. It's just an ease of use thing that makes the whole experience more enjoyable for the end user. Just my. thoughts for what they're worth. 

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1 hour ago, sross44 said:

 I think that's what everyone is kind of getting at. It'd be nice for users to not have to re-enter a password each time they're using the app. Remote users are often family members, parents, kids, etc that entering a password like that is difficult each time or simply to inconvenient

+1

1 hour ago, sross44 said:

I know that sounds pretty ridiculous but it's true

No, not at all.

 

2 hours ago, sross44 said:

From an ease of use standpoint, even remote users should be able to log in once, and have multiple crendentials (user and password) saved.

I know I'm repeating myself but let me add on thought to this: When implementing this it needs to be ensured that the kids switch easily to their parents account (e.g. by a PIN for their parents account to avoid re-entering the password)

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dani75alves
1 hour ago, neik said:

+1

Não, de jeito nenhum.

 

Eu sei que estou me repetindo, mas deixe-me adicionar um pensamento a isso: Ao implementar isso, é necessário garantir que as crianças mudem facilmente para a conta dos pais (por exemplo, por um PIN para a conta dos pais para evitar a reinserção da senha)

De acordo com o seu ponto de vista, mas veja bem, a discussão principal aqui é sobre a criação de um grupo de usuários dentro do servidor, como faz a Netflix, Disney e outras plataformas, fazendo assim sempre que abrisse o servidor automaticamente ele perguntaria quem iria fazer login, você escolheria seu usuário, digitaria seu PIN de 4 dígitos e assim poderia fazer login e assistir. Atualmente o Emby não conta com esse iniciativa e somente aparecem todos os usuários, se tiver 50 usuários no Emby aparecem 50. 

O seu pedido logo seria adicionado na implantação do modelo de grupos, entendeu o ponto de vista inicial? 

O seu pedido estaria sendo implantado junto a ideia inicial, que não sabemos quando e como pode ser acrescentada ao Emby Servidor.

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dani75alves
1 hour ago, neik said:

+1

Não, de jeito nenhum.

 

Eu sei que estou me repetindo, mas deixe-me adicionar um pensamento a isso: Ao implementar isso, é necessário garantir que as crianças mudem facilmente para a conta dos pais (por exemplo, por um PIN para a conta dos pais para evitar a reinserção da senha)

E acrescento mais, a ideia de grupo seria exatamente pra isso, pois quando você decidisse trocar de usuário rapidamente, iria apenas aparecer na sua tela somente os usuários daquele grupo igual faz no PLEX, só que com menos usuários, no PLEX aparecem todos os usuários e a nossa ideia é que apareçam só os usuários de um grupo específico para que assim facilite ainda mais a troca de usuário.

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3 hours ago, sross44 said:

@ebr I think that's what everyone is kind of getting at. It'd be nice for users to not have to re-enter a password each time they're using the app. Remote users are often family members, parents, kids, etc that entering a password like that is difficult each time or simply to inconvenient. I know that sounds pretty ridiculous but it's true. From an ease of use standpoint, even remote users should be able to log in once, and have multiple crendentials (user and password) saved. If you end up switching servers, then yes, you should have to re-enter passwords etc. But like I said above, there's something to be said for both Plex and Jellyfin when you can just easily switch between user accounts wether on a local client or a remote client. It's just an ease of use thing that makes the whole experience more enjoyable for the end user. Just my. thoughts for what they're worth. 

Please see the previous discussion as there are issues with this that complicate matters.  In your example, it is very likely that the different users will have different access permissions (kids vs parents) and doing what you are suggesting will eliminate all parental control.

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Having given some thought to this, looking for the easiest solution possible that could be implemented without causing issues down the road.

BREAKDOWN

ON LAN - Keep in mind what you can do on a private intranet isn't always a good idea on the Internet.  Emby users can be setup to not require the use of password or PIN when used on LAN (same IP block as server). This can be handy to use for Kids accounts, a babysitter account (given exact access as your kids) or guest account allowing basic access with PG or PG13 type parental access.

In an environment with child accounts, you would not want to allow an admin or adult accounts configured without parental rights access to login without a password or PIN as you would be introducing an easy way to bypass the parental restriction you had in place on the child accounts. With a mixed audience of ages and/or access requirements you need to have the accounts with less restrictive access enter some type of code or password to stop children or restricted people from simply selecting an account with higher access. 

On LAN this can be done now using PIN codes for adults while allowing child account access without a PIN or password.

LOGIN ACCOUNTS

Emby has the ability to configure showing login screens on specific devices:

image.png
 

With the above 3 options you can configure if a user account shows up on every device, only on devices they have previously logged in on, remotely only, locally only, or never show up. 

As the admin you can control your "family group" quite easily by hiding all non-family members from showing on the local network (top option). You can also keep your family accounts from showing on remote devices if you need that as well regardless of if the account has ever signed in on the device.

When setting up typical accounts you can enable the top two or three options, so the user account never shows up and always requires a manual login. Where it gets fun or interesting is the users you want to be part of a "family".  Let's say you the admin have 4 total accounts; brother's family has 4 accounts and sister's family has 5 accounts. Each of those 13 accounts in total would be setup with the 3rd option.  This allows each of the 13 accounts to show up on the login screen but only when they have logged in once already. Your brother logs in on each device they have one time for each of his family's 4 accounts.  Now all 4 accounts show up on the Login screen.  Your sister does the same thing on each device she has at her house and now all 5 accounts show up on the login screen of each device.  You the admin also do the same thing so now only your family members show up on your devices.

On the admin's LAN all accounts should work as needed with children being able to login to their accounts just by choosing their login name/picture. Parents or 
older kids/teenagers can have an easy-to-use PIN they enter for access (to less restrictive content) which keeps the children from access. Parents with access 
to everything have their own PIN and/or password as well. (don't forget to also secure the file system itself so the kids/teenagers can't get raw access to the media). :)

SO CLOSE - WHAT'S NEEDED
The admin's family group should work as needed but the brother and sister's family groups are close but not quite there. They have the login accounts but require a password be entered short of the last account logged in which can be remembered. The remote accounts do not presently have the ability to use a PIN account. 

Possible solutions that could make family accounts easier to use remotely.
1. Modify Emby Client to allow remembering the password for each account showing on the login screen. Along with remembering the password allow use of a PIN for easier access. Unlike the PIN code use on the server, the PIN code used on the client side simply allows fetching the locally stored encrypted password that is then sent to login normally. So a PIN code used remotely is useless without a valid password already stored on the device! Technically each and every device setup for the family could have different PIN codes as they are managed locally.

2. Similar to above but extend the Server's use of PIN codes to remote users. The PIN used remotely would only allow the remote client to fetch and use the stored password already saved on the client. The PIN code itself could not do the login as can be done on the local LAN.  So it's almost exactly like #1 except the same PIN is used on every device and managed on the server itself. Using a PIN would require the client validate the PIN first with the server and when validated would allow the client to fetch and send the saved encrypted password for proper login. Using a PIN on a device that doesn't have the password already saved would not work so the PIN used remotely doesn't make it easier to brute force logins.

Both 1 & 2 would work the same for remote users once setup. The difference would be #2 requires the admin to setup everything keeping total control while #1 allows the user to enable PIN use for their account to save typing the full password on that device.

Besides the possibility of local access using PIN and/or stored passwords there is no delegation involved as all accounts need be configured on the server same as usual.

Combining the storage of locally encrypted passwords and PIN for each account on the login screen in the Emby Client would be the needed piece to allow the creation and use of "family circle" type logins.

@ebr what do you think of this approach? Any downsides you can think of?

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Bottles51
3 hours ago, ebr said:

Please see the previous discussion as there are issues with this that complicate matters.  In your example, it is very likely that the different users will have different access permissions (kids vs parents) and doing what you are suggesting will eliminate all parental control.

Maybe just leave that up to the user to enable a password if they have children.

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1 hour ago, cayars said:

Any downsides you can think of?

Development, maintenance and complexity :).  ALL apps would need to start trying to manage this meaning they all need a way to configure it (which accounts require the PIN, which don't, what is the PIN for each account, etc.).  Now you've taken a nicely centralized authentication system and distributed it throughout a multitude of apps and devices.

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Really a conversation for a different thread but instead of a remote PIN it should be a "remote entered sequence of button presses".  The app based "Sequence" does not need to be numbers like a typical PIN nor would it display anything on screen when entered.

It could be as simple as using navigational direction buttons (up, down, left, right) to allowing the rewind, ff, pause buttons as well if they can be trapped for this purpose. Using just the nav buttons it's much safer to enter up,up,up,left,right,down,up,up ok which can't be seen on screen allowing login to an account with a room full of people. The sequence is optional for all users and could be stored locally (encrypted) with the encrypted password or on the server.

So essentially the same as described above but is quite useful beside this request as it stops password hijacking by watching the screen as someone enters a PIN or Password.  The local app wouldn't need to track which users it applies to as it's purpose is useful to all users. :)

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3 hours ago, cayars said:

could be as simple as using navigational direction buttons (up, down, left, right) to allowing the rewind, ff, pause buttons as well if they can be trapped for this purpose. Using just the nav buttons it's much safer to enter up,up,up,left,right,down,up,up ok which can't be seen on screen allowing login to an account with a room full of people. The sequence is optional for all users and could be stored locally (encrypted) with the encrypted password or on the server.

The android TV app actually already has this for password entry. You have to turn it on in the options though because none of the other apps have it. I stole it from the fire tv a long time ago. 

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sross44

As a complete side note, this makes me feel like the old NES codes to enter before games (showing my age) up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A. It's the old code for Contra and I'll never forget it lol

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21 minutes ago, ebr said:

The android TV app actually already has this for password entry. You have to turn it on in the options though because none of the other apps have it. I stole it from the fire tv a long time ago. 

I love this feature for PIN entry in ATV.

Really hope it's ported to standard Android and Roku one day. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I know I'm late to the party here, but why not just make a parent user and then just give an option when creating new users to make a user a sub account of the primary user.  Note, i'm talking about remote users here and not local users.

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4 hours ago, mostym said:

Note, i'm talking about remote users here and not local users.

Hi.  There is no such distinction currently in Emby.  Only users.

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  • 8 months later...

Hi

if there have been any recent developments regarding the profile feature? I know you are working on the PIN feature, but I'm specifically interested in the profile feature, which is the topic of this discussion.

Thanks

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14 hours ago, iBoss said:

Hi

if there have been any recent developments regarding the profile feature? I know you are working on the PIN feature, but I'm specifically interested in the profile feature, which is the topic of this discussion.

Thanks

hi, it's possible for future updates. Thanks.

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