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#21 chyron8472 OFFLINE  

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 12:30 PM

By "everything" I meant that the screen is completely blank with no fields filled in and NO clue as to what the naming is which means that you have to look up things like the ID based on memory and you are not given a clue.


idk, I just google "(movie title) moviedb" or "(tv show title) tvdb" and google figures out what the ID is. But yes, as I said, the Plex interface for Matching is more streamlined, as it has fewer options and is therefore less confusing at first.
 

just a little example, for the TV movie version of "The Andromeda Strain" does not match even though it matched in my original server. I try with the IMDB ID the name and the correct date and it fails to find anything and never says why.


Google says there is a 1971 movie and a 2008 miniseries with that title. I don't believe Emby would match a movie for you if you gave it a tv series' ID.

Edited by chyron8472, 04 January 2019 - 12:38 PM.


#22 BAlGaInTl OFFLINE  

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 12:32 PM

What is the IMDB ID for that one?

 

I just searched for "Andromeda" using the identify tool and got a bunch of hits, including 5 movies that are "The Andromeda Strain".



#23 chyron8472 OFFLINE  

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 12:51 PM

What is the IMDB ID for that one?
 
I just searched for "Andromeda" using the identify tool and got a bunch of hits, including 5 movies that are "The Andromeda Strain".


Two of them are the 1971 film, with one entry from imdb and the other from themoviedb (you can tell by the poster art each site uses);
two are behind-the-scenes featurettes;
and one is an experimental "The Strain Andromeda" film which runs the 1971 film backwards shot-for-shot, or so imdb says.

It doesn't list the 2008 TV miniseries at all.

Edited by chyron8472, 04 January 2019 - 12:56 PM.


#24 BAlGaInTl OFFLINE  

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 01:22 PM

Two of them are the 1971 film, with one entry from imdb and the other from themoviedb (you can tell by the poster art each site uses);
two are behind-the-scenes featurettes;
and one is an experimental "The Strain Andromeda" film which runs the 1971 film backwards shot-for-shot, or so imdb says.

It doesn't list the 2008 TV miniseries at all.

 

Ah... so is it "mis-classified" as a "movie" then and should really be in a "TV" library?

 

When I performed the same experiment in my TV library, it identified the 2008 version.

 

ETA

 

I wonder if the physical files were copied to a TV library location instead if it would be properly identified.


Edited by BAlGaInTl, 04 January 2019 - 01:23 PM.


#25 ebr OFFLINE  

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 01:57 PM

In trying to fix a match in Emby (identify) you are presented with an empty screen where you have to fill in everything while in Plex (Fix match) the screen gets populated with Plex's best guess and you only need to alter/fix what might be wrong. From that it is much easier to fix a matching issue with Plex than it is with Emby. But this is fairly minor as my naming is nearly perfect so mismatches are very rare for either system.

 

We actually used to do this but stopped due to feedback.

 

If the item was mis-matched, that means that our "best guess" is incorrect - perhaps wildly so.  Therefore, populating the screen with this incorrect data just made people have to go blank it out in order to get any result other than what had already been found (and was wrong).  So, starting with a blank screen should actually be quicker in these instances.

 

You can just type in part of the title or one of the provider IDs (if you know it) and off you go...



#26 BAlGaInTl OFFLINE  

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 02:04 PM

We actually used to do this but stopped due to feedback.
 
If the item was mis-matched, that means that our "best guess" is incorrect - perhaps wildly so.  Therefore, populating the screen with this incorrect data just made people have to go blank it out in order to get any result other than what had already been found (and was wrong).  So, starting with a blank screen should actually be quicker in these instances.
 
You can just type in part of the title or one of the provider IDs (if you know it) and off you go...


I agree with that change.

I actually like the empty fields and performing a simple search (as above). It returns more results, and it isn't hard to then choose from those.

#27 chyron8472 OFFLINE  

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 02:31 PM

We actually used to do this but stopped due to feedback.
 
If the item was mis-matched, that means that our "best guess" is incorrect - perhaps wildly so.  Therefore, populating the screen with this incorrect data just made people have to go blank it out in order to get any result other than what had already been found (and was wrong).  So, starting with a blank screen should actually be quicker in these instances.


I hadn't thought of that. In Plex, somtimes when a "guess" in the Match popup is incorrect, getting it to stop pointing to the same mismatch or to use a different Agent than the default can be a pain. Sometimes I would have to reenter the desired title, year, and agent two or three times before Plex would actually listen to me and give the result I wanted.

That happened a lot when I was setting up my audiobooks with macr0dev's Audible agent plugin, especially since I didn't want that agent to be the default.

 

 

...also, getting poster art when Identifying in Emby is helpful. If we ever get an audiobook metadata plugin for Emby, it would be nice not having to identify which particular audiobook I'm looking for from a simple list of dozens of identically named audiobooks, as happens in Plex.

 

5c2fac797969d_Untitled.jpg


Edited by chyron8472, 04 January 2019 - 02:59 PM.


#28 Gilgamesh_48 OFFLINE  

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:31 PM

Two of them are the 1971 film, with one entry from imdb and the other from themoviedb (you can tell by the poster art each site uses);
two are behind-the-scenes featurettes;
and one is an experimental "The Strain Andromeda" film which runs the 1971 film backwards shot-for-shot, or so imdb says.

It doesn't list the 2008 TV miniseries at all.

The movie I was talking about was "The Andromeda Strain (2008)" and it does match in IMDB as "tt0424600" and now I have managed to match it manually using that ID and no other info in the "identify" screen. It just did not match automagically like most other correctly named movies. It just failed to match in that screen with any other info in the past.

I have joined the three parts into one movie and placed in my movie database and I have, with some trepidation, managed to get it to match correctly.

I am happy about that and I had been having trouble with one version of "Day of the Triffids" as well but that was fixed in the same manner by using the IMDB id and nothing else in the "identify" screen.

Now that I know how to fix the matching issue it will be a lot easier in the future to correct problems.



#29 chyron8472 OFFLINE  

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:56 PM

The movie I was talking about was "The Andromeda Strain (2008)" and it does match in IMDB as "tt0424600" and now I have managed to match it manually using that ID and no other info in the "identify" screen. It just did not match automagically like most other correctly named movies. It just failed to match in that screen with any other info in the past.

I have joined the three parts into one movie and placed in my movie database and I have, with some trepidation, managed to get it to match correctly

 

You made a fan edit, then. I know someone on who has used the Star Wars: The Clone Wars animated series and strung story-arc-related episodes together to make feature-length films. I wouldn't expect a feature-length fan edit to automatically scrape metadata about its source TV series. ...Unless that fan edit was listed on the Internet Fanedit Database and someone made a plugin here to scrape from IFDb.

 

I'm glad you got it to work, but I'm surprised it did. Maybe there could be a toggle switch in the Identify window to specify a search for matches to Movies or TV Shows (at the series level), but I think that has limited use outside of moviefied fan edits of TV shows.


Edited by chyron8472, 04 January 2019 - 07:09 PM.


#30 ginjaninja OFFLINE  

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 01:33 AM

We actually used to do this but stopped due to feedback.

If the item was mis-matched, that means that our "best guess" is incorrect - perhaps wildly so. Therefore, populating the screen with this incorrect data just made people have to go blank it out in order to get any result other than what had already been found (and was wrong). So, starting with a blank screen should actually be quicker in these instances.

You can just type in part of the title or one of the provider IDs (if you know it) and off you go...

i am surprised by the comments favoring embys identify interface and the confidence in the current identify design. cant argue with the feedback i guess but i am surprised.

i use both regularly and am familiar with the pros and cons in real world use. there is opprtunity to take the best from both and improve emby's identify process.

imo it would be better to pre populate the identify interface with current data ie data that emby used to get an incorrect match. and offer a clear button against each field (perhaps a clear all button to satisfy die hard supporters of the current design) for the following reasons.

1. in my case the incorrect match is never because the search data is wrong but a unique result is not possible, having to reenter the title is annoying.

2. seeing the data used for match would highlight mistakes in file naming etc and why a match is not working.

3. its quicker to clear a field than to type it in...especially when using a controller rather than keyboard . so starting with something gives the best of both worlds imo.

there is an argument that some of the search terms hinder more than help eg an incorrect year..but title is 100% useful search term (in all but straight id lookups)... better to start with what youve got than type in again. maybe there is a case for when results are 0, show "no results but these are results when eg 'year' is dropped".

emby has been making improvements in the identify results with pictures and metadata against the results to aid disambiguation i would urge that to continue.

going outside emby to imdb/tmdb/tvdb ids is a useful last unequivocal resort but shouldnt be neccessary with the right interface.

plexs identify interface gives the option to change provider priority for a single media item, complete overkill but shows a powerful capability in the 'agent' design that touches the identify capability.

full disclosure: all my library content is cleaned through other tools before emby sees it, so is 100% correct, maybe this is the discrepancy that explains the surprise..for people with messy data its better to start from scratch..still think my suggestion would work well for both.

slightly off topic..
there is more than enough metdata available in music libraries and flexibilty in musicbrainz api for matches to become ~100% (artists with albums with tracknames with track number)..plex's music artist match is significantly more robust.

i would love a plugin to store manual corrections in a separate area, so when an inevitable full rebuild comes along these can be read back in to save all the hard work.






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Edited by ginjaninja, 05 January 2019 - 01:35 AM.

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#31 Luke OFFLINE  

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 04:40 PM

 

 

3. its quicker to clear a field than to type it in...especially when using a controller rather than keyboard . so starting with something gives the best of both worlds imo.

 

What about those who don't know they need to clear it, and just end up getting frustrated when the pre-populated data produces no results? That is what led this in the first place.



#32 Gilgamesh_48 OFFLINE  

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 08:47 PM

What about those who don't know they need to clear it, and just end up getting frustrated when the pre-populated data produces no results? That is what led this in the first place.

 

Actually, for me, I have simply changed how I fix my my few mismatches. I have Emby open in the web app and I open IMDB in another window. Then  I copy the name (using my file naming as it is nearly always correct) of the movie that was mismatched and then paste it into IMDB and get the correct match I then copy the ID and paste it into the IMDB field of the "Identify" dialog. That has produced a 100% fix of poor matches over the last couple of days. It even get fixes for obscure movies or movies that were originally TV movies.

 

I now have an Emby library that is almost perfectly matched and it did not take any longer than doing the same under Plex. It jus required that I think about my approach differently.

 

I still think it would be better to use the movie name part of the file name and pre-populate the name field BUT I think that no other field should get pre-populated. I also like the idea, if anything is pre-populated, of having a "clear" button for that field.


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#33 ginjaninja OFFLINE  

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 02:34 AM

What about those who don't know they need to clear it, and just end up getting frustrated when the pre-populated data produces no results? That is what led this in the first place.

for reference, plex's identification interface:
shows the path to media item ie what you are identifying (very useful)
defaults the search terms to what it thinks it knows (useful for me)
integrates the direct provider id lookup within the title field (not obvious)
allows to use the default search terms against a non default provider priority (overkill)

indeed plex defaults to showing search results listed by confidence using a best guess with the available search terms. entering search terms is a 2nd step if the current guesses dont suffice.

e59e0777d9e1eb28091a0a3e63cbb1c3.jpg


edit...

i wonder what is the fundamental cause of confusion that led to current design..
unlikely that the user does not appreciate what search terms are..more likely they dont know the specifics of and / ors against those terms.

but imo it is wrong to make the long term use of the interface worse for the sake of requiring the user to either intiuit or read a wiki or help tip.

maybe the user is given a help tip on first use...tick to supress this help tip in future.


...for plex it is impossible to get it wrong because you cant put a title and id in at the same time (as it is the same field)..this makes sense technically but far from obvious to a user.

maybe emby could label a field "title or %providername(s,)% id" where the name(s) is/are an href to relevant provider(s) (to ease manual lookup). and emby searches relevant providers for regex search results on this field ( matching id syntax for relevant provider(s))

emby has a distinct advantage over plex in that it shows images against results when available.

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Edited by ginjaninja, 06 January 2019 - 03:52 AM.


#34 Luke OFFLINE  

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 04:28 PM

 

 

it is impossible to get it wrong because you cant put a title and id in at the same time

 

Yes this is a possible improvement we could look at, thanks.



#35 cayars OFFLINE  

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 01:22 PM

Actually, for me, I have simply changed how I fix my my few mismatches. I have Emby open in the web app and I open IMDB in another window. Then  I copy the name (using my file naming as it is nearly always correct) of the movie that was mismatched and then paste it into IMDB and get the correct match I then copy the ID and paste it into the IMDB field of the "Identify" dialog. That has produced a 100% fix of poor matches over the last couple of days. It even get fixes for obscure movies or movies that were originally TV movies.

 

I now have an Emby library that is almost perfectly matched and it did not take any longer than doing the same under Plex. It jus required that I think about my approach differently.

 

I still think it would be better to use the movie name part of the file name and pre-populate the name field BUT I think that no other field should get pre-populated. I also like the idea, if anything is pre-populated, of having a "clear" button for that field.

This is the EXACT same thing I do.  

I like the fact that Emby give you a blank slate to work from.  After all if it was wrong in the first place that you had to fix it, why start with the bad data?



#36 Gilgamesh_48 OFFLINE  

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 04:27 PM

for reference, plex's identification interface:
shows the path to media item ie what you are identifying (very useful)
defaults the search terms to what it thinks it knows (useful for me)
integrates the direct provider id lookup within the title field (not obvious)
allows to use the default search terms against a non default provider priority (overkill)

 

 

I agree with this. At least  Emby should show the full path and file name for the file seeking to be identified in the identify dialog. It simple makes sense to at least provide a reference to what is trying to be identified otherwise there is too much reliance on short term memory which, for some of us older folks, is less than fully reliable. It does not really need to fill any fields if you can see the file name and copy from it in the identify dialog.



#37 Luke OFFLINE  

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 04:41 PM

Showing the full path in the identify dialog - yup, great idea ! Thanks.


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