Spaceboy 2493 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Again I don’t agree. I don’t want to cycle through channels because the channel load time doesn’t really support it. On a dedicated stb that’s a totally different matter. Entering channel numbers is a no go because most of these ATV devices do not have a full remote 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4330 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 That's fine. As I said there are 3 main ways people use traditional TV. You choose not to use this one way and prefer one of the other ways. Doesn't mean others won't want or use it. Everybody does things differently and having the software/system work the way people are used to makes life easier for THOSE people who prefer doing it another way. Back when I used to do much of the UI for SageTV I would lots of times build in things people asked for even when I didn't think it was the best or easiest way to use the system. I will agree on one fact with you however and that is pure "channel surfing" when using an HDHomeRun isn't something many people are likely to do. The delay in changing channels all but makes that impossible or a masochist dream. However being able to switch channels easily when you are on neighbor channels is still plenty useful such as CNN to Fox News when they are on 1110, 1111 on the lineup. It's surely not the end of the world if we don't support this, but it's a shame if we could support it but choose not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14910 Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 However being able to switch channels easily when you are on neighbor channels is still plenty useful such as CNN to Fox News when they are on 1110, 1111 on the lineup. The Android TV app currently supports two different ways to do that - via an on-screen grid guide and also an "On Now" quick channel changer. Both available while Live TV is playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4330 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Yep aware of that but takes multiple buttons presses. We can debate it all day long. I'm just asking if you can figure out a button combo to allow channel up/channel down it would be nice and welcomed. If you can't or won't then it's not the end of the world either as we DO have multiple other ways of changing channels. In the scheme of "important things" to work on during development this is low on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unisoft 272 Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 (edited) What's the fuss about? Windows Media Center DVR gets it right - channel up and down for channel changes, a mini guide and page up and down using the channel + or - buttons when in mini guide or full guide. Also changing channels by entering channel numbers. Channel numbers here start from 1 for digital TV by aerial. Satellite and cable use 101 onwards. We don't have concept of 10.1 type numbering which I think some countries have. You can also generally renumber TV channels to your own choice and hide ones you don't want on most decent TVs (and WMC). This is how the UK (and Europe) is used to using set top boxes and TVs; this along with WMC. Why change industry practice from what works and is people's expectations? If a device does not have a remote with numbers then it just means direct channel entry not available on that device but the mini guide is. Edited September 24, 2018 by unisoft 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanya 2 Posted September 24, 2018 Author Share Posted September 24, 2018 (edited) The Android TV app currently supports two different ways to do that - via an on-screen grid guide and also an "On Now" quick channel changer. Both available while Live TV is playing. Speaking of this, this is another area of improvement that I'd like to see, even more than I'd like channel up/down buttons. Maybe I am missing something, but my experience has been far from what I would consider optimal. I agree with you that the way viewing TV is changing. Especially with digital cable having hundreds of channels, it's not even convenient to scroll through hundreds of channels by channel up/down buttons. However, there needs to be a quick and efficient way of switching channels. You offer a favorite channels feature, but the way it works in my experience is cumbersome because there is no specific "favorite channels" menu. If I favorite a channel, it gets placed at the top of the list. But if I favorite channel 600, and I want to tune to channel 602 which is not a favorite, I'm not able to quickly press the channel up button. Instead I have to scroll down through about 600 channels in the guide just to tune to the one channel. The stubbornness on the issue and your refusal to add a quick numerical input option for channels doesn't make this any easier. The fact that Live TV is missing these basic and critical features makes it absolutely unusable and not even a comparable substitute to neither the official HDHomeRun View app, the native Android Live Channels app, WMC, or other competitive DVR software. There is a lot of room for improvement, and all that needs to be looked to for example is the software already out there. There are of course multiple ways to accomplish the same task, and that's why innovating is good, but not at the expense of convenience or de-facto standards that behave the way everyone expects. Here's what I feel it's lacking currently that would make the TV experience a real competitor (excuse any that might already be added): 1. On Now needs to only show things relevant to what the viewer wants to see. That includes programs from channels that you have favorited, and the last 3 channels that you watched (to flush out all the irrelevant garbage) 2. The guide needs to be able to be filtered by program categories 3. The guide should be split into two: all channels (with filters) and favorites. Get rid of the feature that puts favorites at the top, instead putting them into their own menu. 4. Both guides should be easily accessible while watching TV. Maybe have the up button pull up the favorites mini-guide, with a button on the mini guide that shows the full guide. The up button could be multi-purposed where holding could pull up the full guide without entering the mini-guide first. Pressing the down button would pull up the more limited "on now" menu which would allow quick flipping between recent channels. 5. Numeric channel entry through either a numeric remote or on screen menu (holding center button could pull up channel entry) In summary: Up - favorites mini guide, with menu to pull up full guide Up (hold) - full screen all channels guide Down - On now Down (hold) - ??? (full screen on now? maybe an "explore" feature that allows searching for any program in the guide?) Left/right - skip forward/back (unchanged) Center (press) - Pull up OSD player controls, with play/pause selected by default just like the Android Live Channels app (double tapping would instantly pause) Center (hold) - ??? free space ???, but could be used for numeric channel entry Some features (such as player stats) don't need to be a hotkey by its own. It would be fine just as an option in the player menu as it is now. Edited September 24, 2018 by Sanya 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14910 Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 What's the fuss about? Windows Media Center DVR gets it right - channel up and down for channel changes, a mini guide and page up and down using the channel + or - buttons when in mini guide or full guide. Also changing channels by entering channel numbers. Channel numbers here start from 1 for digital TV by aerial. Satellite and cable use 101 onwards. We don't have concept of 10.1 type numbering which I think some countries have. You can also generally renumber TV channels to your own choice and hide ones you don't want on most decent TVs (and WMC). This is how the UK (and Europe) is used to using set top boxes and TVs; this along with WMC. Why change industry practice from what works and is people's expectations? If a device does not have a remote with numbers then it just means direct channel entry not available on that device but the mini guide is. In the case of apps like Android TV, none of those devices have buttons for those things (channel up/down, numeric buttons) so you are asking us to spend a ton of effort implementing features that will not get used by a vast majority of people. It just isn't practical at this time. Perhaps it will be when we've done a few more important items. Also, there is a way to get directly to a channel by number in Android TV if you wish. The guide has a numeric entry on-screen keyboard accessible from the guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy 735 Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 In the case of apps like Android TV, none of those devices have buttons for those things (channel up/down, numeric buttons) so you are asking us to spend a ton of effort implementing features that will not get used by a vast majority of people. It just isn't practical at this time. Perhaps it will be when we've done a few more important items. Also, there is a way to get directly to a channel by number in Android TV if you wish. The guide has a numeric entry on-screen keyboard accessible from the guide. Agreed , there are a few more pressing things but this seems to be getting close to the top of the road map as Emby is getting pretty darn polished right now!! (Thank you very much) That said, many users do not use the native remotes but rather use Harmony or other programmable remotes with these buttons built in. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't this be a matter of key mapping remote input to keyboard output or to execute several commands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy 735 Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 BTW, @@ebr, when do you find time to watch 2706 channels?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14910 Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 BTW, @@ebr, when do you find time to watch 2706 channels?!?! LOL. I don't. That is my test system which I've loaded up for stress testing of the guide and other Live TV functions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy 735 Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 Stress testing the epg and LiveTV.. I like that! You guys are worlds ahead on LiveTV from the other guys! Now just for those Closed Captions and a few other tweaks to Live TV. In my opinion this is an area where Emby has the clear lead and with a few more enhancements will really shine. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unisoft 272 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 (edited) In the case of apps like Android TV, none of those devices have buttons for those things (channel up/down, numeric buttons) so you are asking us to spend a ton of effort implementing features that will not get used by a vast majority of people. It just isn't practical at this time. Perhaps it will be when we've done a few more important items. Also, there is a way to get directly to a channel by number in Android TV if you wish. The guide has a numeric entry on-screen keyboard accessible from the guide. Agreed for mobile apps and web client. They don't have remotes for example and touch controls swiping a guide are probably enough to get by. But for LG and Samsung smart TV apps, Emby for WMC, Emby Theatre - I would expect channel number entry and ability to change channel numbering defaults set by broadcaster as in the UK these are all over the place now. This could be server side config for all users instead of expecting it client side (like Media Center is client side for this). Windows Media Center does all of this for example and so do most digital tv's and set top boxes. These apps don't require on screen keypad as the remote does the work. Edited September 26, 2018 by unisoft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanya 2 Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) Hey, I'm bumping this thread to follow up on the two major issues I raised a few months ago. I'm wondering if either of them have been resolved in the latest releases, because I haven't seen anything about it in the patch notes. I'd like to try out Emby again for TV, but the pause/rewind issues were the dealbreaker. The issues being: 1. Time shifting on the Android TV app to the previous program, where the timeline does not update with the information of the previous show. 2. The HTML5 client not allowing backwards time shifting to a previous program after the program has ended. Edited February 7, 2019 by Sanya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4330 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Agreed for mobile apps and web client. They don't have remotes for example and touch controls swiping a guide are probably enough to get by. But for LG and Samsung smart TV apps, Emby for WMC, Emby Theatre - I would expect channel number entry and ability to change channel numbering defaults set by broadcaster as in the UK these are all over the place now. This could be server side config for all users instead of expecting it client side (like Media Center is client side for this). Windows Media Center does all of this for example and so do most digital tv's and set top boxes. These apps don't require on screen keypad as the remote does the work. Exactly, using live TV on a smart TV with the TV's remote and not being able to directly punch in the channel number is a serious downside. Same with the channel up/down button which almost all TV remotes have. Same with Shield TV when using CEC or Bluetooth keyboard.. Theater on computer could use the keypad entry as well. Of course any device that allows 3rd party remotes like Harmony would also be a candidate for direct entry as well. The list of possible clients/configurations that could use direct input of channel numbers is actually pretty large when you think about it. I myself would also like to see other keys used as well like page up/page down in both the EPG and grid views of shows/movies for quicker navigation. Not to mention a HOME button. Just because some people only have a 4 or 6 button dumb remote doesn't mean others should be held back from using very common remote buttons when they have them. Hopefully this type of functionality can get snuck in at some point as it really would help with usability for many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy 735 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Exactly, using live TV on a smart TV with the TV's remote and not being able to directly punch in the channel number is a serious downside. Same with the channel up/down button which almost all TV remotes have. Same with Shield TV when using CEC or Bluetooth keyboard.. Theater on computer could use the keypad entry as well. Of course any device that allows 3rd party remotes like Harmony would also be a candidate for direct entry as well. The list of possible clients/configurations that could use direct input of channel numbers is actually pretty large when you think about it. I myself would also like to see other keys used as well like page up/page down in both the EPG and grid views of shows/movies for quicker navigation. Not to mention a HOME button. Just because some people only have a 4 or 6 button dumb remote doesn't mean others should be held back from using very common remote buttons when they have them. Hopefully this type of functionality can get snuck in at some point as it really would help with usability for many people. If ShieldTV can accept a Harmony Elite as a Harmony Bluetooth Keyboard, Enby should be set up to accept all commands therefrom, which includes all the numbers and playback shortcuts on the top of the keyboard. I agree, the option to utilize all the remote functions should be there. Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4330 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 You can use a lot of remotes with the Shield TV. But out of the box it supports CEC as do most modern TVs so the "stock" remotes that come with the TV can control the shield with no setup. I use my Samsung remotes all the time with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy 735 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 You can use a lot of remotes with the Shield TV. But out of the box it supports CEC as do most modern TVs so the "stock" remotes that come with the TV can control the shield with no setup. I use my Samsung remotes all the time with it. So this works for direct number input on the guide or during LiveTV to change channels? I'm thinking "no". Maybe @@ebr can look into getting this functionality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanya 2 Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 Hey, I'm bumping this thread to follow up on the two major issues I raised a few months ago. I'm wondering if either of them have been resolved in the latest releases, because I haven't seen anything about it in the patch notes. I'd like to try out Emby again for TV, but the pause/rewind issues were the dealbreaker. The issues being: 1. Time shifting on the Android TV app to the previous program, where the timeline does not update with the information of the previous show. 2. The HTML5 client not allowing backwards time shifting to a previous program after the program has ended. Still hoping for someone from the dev team to answer these two questions, so I know whether it's been resolved. I'd love to try Emby again, but I'm not looking to go through the effort and pay for a month if I'm only going to uninstall it after 10 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14910 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Still hoping for someone from the dev team to answer these two questions, so I know whether it's been resolved. I'd love to try Emby again, but I'm not looking to go through the effort and pay for a month if I'm only going to uninstall it after 10 minutes. Your first situation is quite tricky and has not yet been addressed. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chillout 85 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 (edited) +1 that this gets addressed. Would like to move on from WMC.. thanks Edited February 24, 2019 by Chillout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanya 2 Posted September 27, 2019 Author Share Posted September 27, 2019 Hey, I'm bumping this thread to follow up on the two major issues I raised a few months ago. I'm wondering if either of them have been resolved in the latest releases, because I haven't seen anything about it in the patch notes. I'd like to try out Emby again for TV, but the pause/rewind issues were the dealbreaker. The issues being: 1. Time shifting on the Android TV app to the previous program, where the timeline does not update with the information of the previous show. 2. The HTML5 client not allowing backwards time shifting to a previous program after the program has ended. Your first situation is quite tricky and has not yet been addressed. Thanks. It's been a year since I first brought up these two issues, so I'm wondering if either one has been resolved yet? I'd still like to use Emby, but the bugs were dealbreakers for me. Does time shifting currently work between programs (including updating the program info and timeline) on the HTML5 player and in the theater app for Windows? Does it work on Android TV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14910 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Your first issue on Android TV has not yet been addressed. As I mentioned before it is a bit tricky and it just hasn't come up very much (no one else has mentioned it since you last did). Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanya 2 Posted September 27, 2019 Author Share Posted September 27, 2019 What about the other half of the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37060 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Does time shifting currently work between programs (including updating the program info and timeline) on the HTML5 player and in the theater app for Windows? Does it work on Android TV? @@Sanya, changing the program info while seeking is an interesting case and something that may need a little refinement. We'll take a look at this. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanya 2 Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 Thank you for the response. I can't wait to fully switch to Emby. Overall the TV experience is very stable and works great when not watching on any delay, but it breaks and causes headaches if I have to rewind to an earlier time or if I'm on delay and pause TV to make dinner or do something for work. It'll be exciting if/when the program information and timeline keeps up with the current program, and I can't wait to be able to finally switch from WMC and upgrade to Windows 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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