Emby Live TV time shifting is broken - can't pause and rewind tv buffer to previous program

[Sanya 2]

I've been looking into Emby as a replacement for WMC, like other people on here.

 

I love the media server and device support, but I'm having an issue with Live TV.

 

If I'm watching a program at the end, and the next program starts, if I want to rewind to the previous program, Emby still thinks I am watching the most recent program. The progress only shows for the show that is currently on, and it's impossible to tell where you are in the previous program. The progress bar does not show progress, and the time code is completely messed up.

 

This happens in both the browser player and on the Android TV app in the Play Store.

 

Here is a video demonstrating the issue:

 

At the beginning I try rewinding. At the end of the video I fast forward to present.

 

Is this a normal behavior? Or is this a known issue?

Edited September 28, 2019 by Sanya

[ebr 14903]

It is just a situation that hasn't been totally fleshed out.

 

The only issue here is with the display of the progress and program info, correct?  Playback and seeking work fine?

[Spaceboy 2493]

Sounds similar to my issue with pausing live tv and the timeline running over into the following show

[Sanya 2]

It is just a situation that hasn't been totally fleshed out.

 

The only issue here is with the display of the progress and program info, correct?  Playback and seeking work fine?

 

Yes, the only issue is the information on screen. I can still rewind to the previous program that is kept in the server's live TV buffer. However, it is impossible to know where exactly in the program you are due to this issue.

 

Sounds similar to my issue with pausing live tv and the timeline running over into the following show

 

Yeah, this is the same issue. If I pause on a show and the next show comes on, the timeline keeps extending past the end of the current show. Once you seek into the next program, the timeline shortens and becomes part of the current program.

 

And this is present on both the HTML5 Live TV player as well as the Android TV app. I don't have any others I could test, but I assume it's going to be the same. On Android TV, if you pause a TV show and the program ends while the next program is on, the progress bar will be stuck on the left side of the timeline ("in the past").

Edited September 12, 2018 by Sanya

[Luke 37008]

How would you suggest presenting the timeline?

[ebr 14903]

Sounds similar to my issue with pausing live tv and the timeline running over into the following show

 

Have you tested this with the latest beta?

[Sanya 2]

How would you suggest presenting the timeline?

 

I would suggest something like Windows Media Center, since it's essentially the same as any other DVR experience: https://i.imgur.com/nYBl9xk.png (note that when I took this screenshot, it is actually 3:31 pm, despite the time on delay being 1:42)

 

The timeline should only contain information for the program being viewed. The start time of the program from the Guide should be on the left, with the end time on the right. The program information should also show the information for the program at that time. If you are watching Live TV on a delay, any future "buffering" and program information should be hidden until you catch up or fast forward to the next show/block of time. If you rewind, the previous program information and start/end should replace the timeline.

 

It's somewhat complicated to explain, so I would recommend experimenting with WMC on Windows 7 for a better idea and feel.

 

Have you tested this with the latest beta?

If you are referring to the current Emby server HTML5 web view, the current version available does not  "run over" into the following show. Instead, the timeline of the currently airing program replaces the timeline of the previous program, so if you are watching on a delay, the progress is pinned to the left side and seeking is made extremely difficult.

 

Also, although the HTML5 player doesn't run over into the next show, the current Android TV app on the Play Store does. (Assuming we are talking about the same behavior)

 

In any case, fixing the timeline to show progress for the show being currently viewed, instead of the show being aired and buffered, should fix these issues.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Sanya

[ebr 14903]

The timeline should only contain information for the program being viewed. The start time of the program from the Guide should be on the left, with the end time on the right. The program information should also show the information for the program at that time. If you are watching Live TV on a delay, any future "buffering" and program information should be hidden until you catch up or fast forward to the next show/block of time. If you rewind, the previous program information and start/end should replace the timeline.

 

Everything except the rewinding scenario should be exactly how it works on Android TV now.  If you are watching behind real time, the information and progress is all correct for what you are actually watching.  The only thing we haven't accounted for is the situation of rewinding yourself into the previous program.

 

 

If you are referring to the current Emby server HTML5 web view, the current version available does not  "run over" into the following show. Instead, the timeline of the currently airing program replaces the timeline of the previous program, so if you are watching on a delay, the progress is pinned to the left side and seeking is made extremely difficult.

 

Also, although the HTML5 player doesn't run over into the next show, the current Android TV app on the Play Store does. (Assuming we are talking about the same behavior)

 

In any case, fixing the timeline to show progress for the show being currently viewed, instead of the show being aired and buffered, should fix these issues.

 

My question about testing was directed at @@Spaceboy and the specific issue he mentioned (the progress continuing while paused).

[Spaceboy 2493]

Have you tested this with the latest beta?

not yet, its a fairly rare usage case but i will find some time to test later

[Sanya 2]

Everything except the rewinding scenario should be exactly how it works on Android TV now.  If you are watching behind real time, the information and progress is all correct for what you are actually watching.  The only thing we haven't accounted for is the situation of rewinding yourself into the previous program.

 

You're right. I was getting confused because of a small display glitch: https://i.imgur.com/t1Gjjo5.jpg

 

When I saw "ends at 5:20" and the time would continue to increase, I jumped to the conclusion that it was affecting the progress bar as well. Personally, I think there is a lot that should change with this view, but since you are in the process of switching to a newer player design that is much better and addresses those concerns, I don't need to say anything more, as long as the main issue of the program information when rewinding is fixed.

 

I do have one other question though. I tried the Emby Theater alpha for Android TV. However, I noticed that instead of playing streams natively as it did on Android TV with ExoPlayer, the Theater alpha was using an HTML5 player. This was forcing transcoding of movies and shows that played back fine with the current Android TV app, mainly those with subtitles ("unsupported subtitle format"). Are there plans to give Emby Theater for Android TV a better player that can handle the wide range of video formats?

Edited September 15, 2018 by Sanya

[ebr 14903]

I do have one other question though. I tried the Emby Theater alpha for Android TV. However, I noticed that instead of playing streams natively as it did on Android TV with ExoPlayer, the Theater alpha was using an HTML5 player. This was forcing transcoding of movies and shows that played back fine with the current Android TV app, mainly those with subtitles ("unsupported subtitle format"). Are there plans to give Emby Theater for Android TV a better player that can handle the wide range of video formats?

 

That was a private project by a community member.  Our official app for Android TV is the one in the store.  We may look to fully support Theater on Android TV in the future but haven't done any work on that to date.

[Sanya 2]

That was a private project by a community member.  Our official app for Android TV is the one in the store.  We may look to fully support Theater on Android TV in the future but haven't done any work on that to date.

 

Ok thank you for clarifying that. Out of curiosity, are there any plans to improve the player UI to be similar to the UI on the theater? I feel like the button layout is rather cumbersome and nonstandard compared to the average player, as well as lacking some features on Live TV like channel surfing and manual channel number entry.

 

Also it's just my $0.02, but it would probably make sense to redo the button layout for the remote.

• Pressing up and down on the remote should be for channel seeking
  • HOLDING up should bring up the mini-guide (because no one would realistically seek through channels so fast that they would be holding the up button to flip through channels
  • HOLDING down should bring up the "what's on/recent channels" row
  • In the settings, it would probably be nice to have the choice of having the up/down buttons on the remote either pull up the mini-guide or scroll through channels for people who don't care about channel surfing.
• Left and right for skipping forward and back
• Pressing the center button should bring up the player controls (rewind to beginning, skip back 30 seconds, play/pause, skip ahead, skip to end, record, info, guide, CC, settings).
• Perhaps long pressing on the center button could bring up the guide.

These are just a few suggestions that I think could dramatically improve the viewing experience and make it a bit easier and intuitive to use.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Sanya

[Luke 37008]

We plan to make the UI in all of our apps consistent. It is something we are gradually working towards.

[Sanya 2]

We plan to make the UI in all of our apps consistent. It is something we are gradually working towards.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad you have plans for continuing to improve it. I'm really looking forward to it when it comes.

 

Also, this is out of place to mention this here, but regarding the main issue of this topic and the time shifting between programs, I just wanted to add that this is something Plex does perfectly with the web player for Live TV. For many other reasons, Plex isn't for me, which is why I was hoping to see this corrected in Emby. But as a reference, if that was something you wanted to demo, they do a very good job at their Live TV web client implementation.

[ebr 14903]

• Pressing up and down on the remote should be for channel seeking
  • HOLDING up should bring up the mini-guide (because no one would realistically seek through channels so fast that they would be holding the up button to flip through channels
  • HOLDING down should bring up the "what's on/recent channels" row
  • In the settings, it would probably be nice to have the choice of having the up/down buttons on the remote either pull up the mini-guide or scroll through channels for people who don't care about channel surfing.

 

Since the up key already brings up the "What's on" overlay, it is already a method of switching channels that is much more useful (and less intrusive) than blindly changing the channel.  The rest of those things would be too hard to discover so I'm not very keen on them.

 

 

• Left and right for skipping forward and back
• Pressing the center button should bring up the player controls (rewind to beginning, skip back 30 seconds, play/pause, skip ahead, skip to end, record, info, guide, CC, settings).

 

That's exactly what happens in the app now.

 

 

• Perhaps long pressing on the center button could bring up the guide.

 

That currently brings up the "Stats for Nerds".

[Carlo 4330]

ebr in defense of what Sanya said he is multi purposing the buttons as other programs due.

Quick up or quick down is a channel up or down channel change. Holding up is mini-grid, Holding down is recent channels.

 

Using combinations like this or even "double taps" is a powerful way of getting a lot more functionality out of 4 buttons.

 

But one thing is for sure, many people will want the ability to change channels without the use of a grid like they do on a STB or using the digital tuner in the TV.

For me on Comcast Cable I've got my usual programs all near each other such as Weather Channel, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC which makes those cake to change without a grid.  My ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox are all right near each other as well and a simple up down channel change is easy enough as well.

 

Personally if I had to choose between the UP being the mini-grid or the up channel change and same with DOWN key I'd prefer them to be a channel change since I can still hit the enter key to bring up the OSD and access the other functions from there (same with stats for nerds).

 

You could actually make it an option so that on an up or down press the mini-guide pops up.  Personally the stats for nerds I don't think should have a dedicated key for it.  Hopefully if things are working well there should be little needs to look at it anyway so why have a key reserved for it? It of course would remain available via the mini toolbar on the OSD anyway.

 

Just my 2 cents,

Carlo

[Spaceboy 2493]

Fully with ebr on this

[Carlo 4330]

Just think how people would react if all the cable operators and TV set manufactures removed the ability to channel surf by hitting up or down channel.  It's by far one of the easiest methods to change channels.

 

On Verizon or Comcast if you want the grid you have to hit the button for it (guess it depends on the service you have with them and what STB being used).  But the point is that UP and DOWN channel changing has been a vital way of watching TV since the first remote was introduced. Decades before any TV had any type of EPG even possible on the TV.

[Carlo 4330]

Could we have the option of setting the OSD timeout and the ability to set the OSD to remove itself on PAUSE?

I find the OSD to stay on the screen longer than I'd want in almost all uses but this is highly personal of course, Hence a setting would be cool.

Some people might want a longer OSD while others might want a quick OSD.

 

On many sports shows I like to pause a play at a key moment (was he out of bounds?) but with the OSD never going away 1/3 the screen isn't clearly visible.  If the OSD would disappear in a couple of seconds this would be appreciated.

 

Some people may not want this, thus I'd ask for it as an config option.

 

I miss this in Plex as it would automatically remove the OSD.  In Plex you could hit the Y button to pause/resume without any OSD popup at all.

 

Carlo

Edited September 17, 2018 by cayars

[Spaceboy 2493]

Just think how people would react if all the cable operators and TV set manufactures removed the ability to channel surf by hitting up or down channel. It's by far one of the easiest methods to change channels.

 

On Verizon or Comcast if you want the grid you have to hit the button for it (guess it depends on the service you have with them and what STB being used). But the point is that UP and DOWN channel changing has been a vital way of watching TV since the first remote was introduced. Decades before any TV had any type of EPG even possible on the TV.

i agree, that is how things used to be and we’ve moved on

[Spaceboy 2493]

Could we have the option of setting the OSD timeout and the ability to set the OSD to remove itself on PAUSE?

I find the OSD to stay on the screen longer than I'd want in almost all uses but this is highly personal of course, Hence a setting would be cool.

Some people might want a longer OSD while others might want a quick OSD.

 

On many sports shows I like to pause a play at a key moment (was he out of bounds?) but with the OSD never going away 1/3 the screen isn't clearly visible. If the OSD would disappear in a couple of seconds this would be appreciated.

 

Some people may not want this, thus I'd ask for it as an config option.

 

I miss this in Plex as it would automatically remove the OSD. In Plex you could hit the Y button to pause/resume without any OSD popup at all.

 

Carlo

if you hit the pause button only the mini osd comes up and that only covers about 10% of the screen. I agree that probably still stays on screen for too long though

[ebr 14903]

Just think how people would react if all the cable operators and TV set manufactures removed the ability to channel surf by hitting up or down channel.  It's by far one of the easiest methods to change channels.

 

On Verizon or Comcast if you want the grid you have to hit the button for it (guess it depends on the service you have with them and what STB being used).  But the point is that UP and DOWN channel changing has been a vital way of watching TV since the first remote was introduced. Decades before any TV had any type of EPG even possible on the TV.

 

Two points -

 

1) Those devices have dedicated channel up/down buttons.  They don't change channels when you press the navigation up/down buttons.

 

2) The way TV is consumed is changing

[ebr 14903]

Could we have the option of setting the OSD timeout and the ability to set the OSD to remove itself on PAUSE?

I find the OSD to stay on the screen longer than I'd want in almost all uses but this is highly personal of course, Hence a setting would be cool.

Some people might want a longer OSD while others might want a quick OSD.

 

On many sports shows I like to pause a play at a key moment (was he out of bounds?) but with the OSD never going away 1/3 the screen isn't clearly visible.  If the OSD would disappear in a couple of seconds this would be appreciated.

 

Some people may not want this, thus I'd ask for it as an config option.

 

I miss this in Plex as it would automatically remove the OSD.  In Plex you could hit the Y button to pause/resume without any OSD popup at all.

 

Carlo

 

On your first point of it going away too slow - pressing the back key will dismiss it immediately.

 

On your second point of when pausing - it already behaves this way - if you don't use the OSD to pause it.  If you just hit "OK" or "Play/Pause" the mini OSD will come up to show you where you are and then go away in a few seconds and the screen is completely free for you looking at whatever you want to.

[Carlo 4330]

if you hit the pause button only the mini osd comes up and that only covers about 10% of the screen. I agree that probably still stays on screen for too long though

It doesn't on my controller.  BTW, I'm using the game controller as I have a 2015 model without the small remote.  I also use CEC for control.

[Carlo 4330]

Two points -

 

1) Those devices have dedicated channel up/down buttons.  They don't change channels when you press the navigation up/down buttons.

 

2) The way TV is consumed is changing

Yes that is true but beside the point.  I can use the same remote in Live Channels and navigate with up/down as well as grid EPG for example.  I can pick up my Samsung remote which has CEC and does have dedicated up/down channel channels but they don't work in Emby.  Neither does entering the channel number via keypad.

 

Sometimes with think to much like "geeks" and not typical people who use commodity devices.  For example in a lot of software design, big user groups are assembled to find out how the product is used and what functionality is more important to users.  I bring this up because if you were to ask a sample question such as:

 

Would you prefer to use one of 5 main buttons to bring up a statistics screen or use that button for another purpose such as [insert function here], then you would find not many people would want a dedicated stats key.  It's not used often except to trouble shoot and is still available with an extra couple of clicks from the OSD. The large majority of people would probably ask what the "stats" thing, which shows right there it's not important (in this sample context).  It may be super important to devs and those who test a lot but not to the average user.  

 

If you took said user group who are used to using digital TV or a typical STB and give them Emby and gave them a quick overview I almost guarantee two of the first questions we would get asked is how can I change the channel without the EPG grid.  How do I switch directly to channel # such and such and how to I change up or down a single channel. My dad, daughter and X ask/complain about this a lot.  When you've got two stations like CNN and Fox News next to each other you don't want to navigate a few button clicks when one could do the same thing.

 

There are 3 main ways the majority of people use Live TV today.  We currently only support one of those 3 ways. People enter the 3 or 4 digit TV channel # with their remote for channels they know and use often, They channel surf up or down and use Grids to see what's on and to switch channels they don't have memorized or know where they are.

 

The more Emby can accommodate how people presently use Live TV the better.  Without question there are other neat things Emby can do like showing recent channels and what's on that aren't part of the 3 mentioned earlier but that's just icing on the cake.

 

If you play with other software on something like a Shield TV with Live Channels you can see they support using these different methods and the interface and use is immediately usable and comfortable to almost anyone you hand the remote to.

 

I get for sure that Live TV is only one part of Emby and some of this functionality does not make sense in other parts of the system and that for sure is the tricky part. But with Live TV becoming an ever larger part and use of Emby as a whole, it's worth some consideration of key adjustments and uses. No doubt many of us are comfortable with the present key assignments but that doesn't mean they are the best use.