lexisdude 133 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) What should be and what is are two different things. As Luke said, we have to deal with what is and that is that the app stores all can allow or disallow any app they want for any reason they want. So we have to keep perception as paramount in this context. Then it might be useful to have something pinned defining what will not be considered when it comes to development requests - that way we at least have some clarity towards request and how they will be discriminated upon in the future. Obviously it would be a list that could change or evolve over time; but at least we would know what have been defined as rejected requests/ideas and possibly even why they were rejected. I personally like the whole idea of a user signup interface for many different reasons - but tracking and user details is more of my interest/vision on the topic - which could later incorporate emails to users etc.. That just expands functionality, automation, and versatility in an already multi-user environment - but that's just my opinion. Edited July 22, 2017 by lexisdude 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdiesel 1113 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) Then it might be useful to have something pinned defining what will not be considered when it comes to development requests - that way we at least have some clarity towards request and how they will be discriminated upon in the future.I don't think there needs to be a list or rule, common sense should be sufficient. Simply ask ”Does this feature request promote piracy or any other illegal activity?". Emby is meant to serve legally owned media and anything that goes against that will likely need to be handled outside of Emby. This is the reason we will likely never see built in support or plugins for tools like sonarr, radarr, etc which I'm sure could easily be done. Edited July 22, 2017 by Jdiesel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexisdude 133 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 I don't think there needs to be a list or rule, common sense should be sufficient. Simply ask ”Does this feature request promote piracy or any other illegal activity?". Emby is meant to serve legally owned media and anything that goes against that will likely need to be handled outside of Emby. This is the reason we will likely never see built in support or plugins for tools like sonarr, radarr, etc which I'm sure could easily be done. Come on now.. That's like reading minds. To me - the original request for more multi-user support pointed to a great idea - yet some on here have already coordinated the idea towards piracy - which is ludicrous and a very long stretch to make it a point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdiesel 1113 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) The current tools in place are fine for managing 10-20 users with no issues. Sending invites is simple too. It is when you start having 100's of users with an large amount of turnover that bulk user management and self signup is necessary. If you can't take the 1 minute it takes to create and setup a new user maybe you shouldn't be giving them access to your server. Edited July 22, 2017 by Jdiesel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexisdude 133 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 The current tools in place are fine for managing 10-20 users with no issues. Sending invites is simple too. It is when you start having 100's of users with an large amount of turnover that bulk user management and self signup is necessary. If you can't take the 1 minute it takes to create and setup a new user maybe you shouldn't be giving them access to your server. Ah - but now we're getting into shaky ground there; because now the developers are defining limits to their users. What's next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdiesel 1113 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) There are no limits on the number of users, only the number of users that recieve premiere benefits under the server license. Also I believe the developers do have some type of business/corporate licensing available to alloe for more premiere users if you PM them. Edited July 22, 2017 by Jdiesel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexisdude 133 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 There are no limits on the number of users, only the number of users that recieve premiere benefits under the server license. Also I believe the developers do have some type of business/corporate licensing available to alloe for more premiere users if you PM them. Thats fine ; and licensing can be laid out however the devs would like - but I was referring to user accounts created server side - which is determined by the (OP) end user on their private server. Suggesting multi-user signup/login page would be a potential for piracy suggests a whole lot; then adding that if someone has 100+ users they must be guilty of illegal activities; that's just not good at all. People can have a server; be providing 100% legitimate content to 1000s of users; through emby or otherwise. And this is the first place I have ever heard someone suggest sign ups = piracy. I understand devs wanting to stay compliant towards the app stores and software houses and how they want to appear - they have to do what they have to do. But trying to differentiate between compliance factors they face; and what users want to see are impossible to ascertain unless we are told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Untoten 296 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) Of course, we could avoid this whole need for this feature request if LDAP/SSO were implemented, as user invites would be leveraged using the centralized auth system and not Emby. It would also avoid any perception issue as a person would need to argue SSO/LDAP is wrong at that point and I am not aware of apps being pulled from stores simply for supporting LDAP/SSO auth protocol. *Cough* @@Luke *Cough* :3https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/26495-ldap-support/?hl=ldap Edited July 22, 2017 by Untoten 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexisdude 133 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Of course, we could avoid this whole need for this feature request if LDAP/SSO were implemented, as user invites would be leveraged using the centralized auth system and not Emby. It would also avoid any perception issue as a person would need to argue SSO/LDAP is wrong at that point and I am not aware of apps being pulled from stores simply for supporting LDAP/SSO auth protocol. *Cough* @@Luke *Cough* :3 https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/26495-ldap-support/?hl=ldap Brilliant ; I like that even more - bumped the post too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14910 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 This request has not been rejected outright. We just wanted to explain one of the factors that works against it. When a request is rejected, it is marked as such in this forum. There have not been many of those. The bigger issue for all requests is cost/benefit and what percentage of users will receive the most benefit from any given feature. In the list of things we'd like to accomplish, there are a lot of items that will benefit a lot more users than this request (or the LDAP one) will because the vast, vast majority of Emby users are households with 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pir8radio 1292 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) There are already MANY pirate emby servers out there. MANY of them are subscription based. They are pretty easy to find.. Lots are plex, more and more are emby. I have always said, CREATE A COMMERCIAL LICENSE for the legit business, church, school users, make that license high priced. And if the pirates purchase it too... Meh their money works in our economy as well. Make this commercial license based on quantity of users, price it out of the reach of the small pirates, let the copyright people shut down the big ones. You narrow your pirate activity right there. Only the successful pirates will be running emby and those are the ones that get caught. You drop the small pirates (the many many many of them) they are the ones that actually cause the bad rep to software vendors. EDIT, I better stop these piracy threads never end well... Edited July 22, 2017 by pir8radio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexisdude 133 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 This request has not been rejected outright. We just wanted to explain one of the factors that works against it. When a request is rejected, it is marked as such in this forum. There have not been many of those. The bigger issue for all requests is cost/benefit and what percentage of users will receive the most benefit from any given feature. In the list of things we'd like to accomplish, there are a lot of items that will benefit a lot more users than this request (or the LDAP one) will because the vast, vast majority of Emby users are households with < 10 users. I understand. There is no reason that EMBY cannot mature into having a home version - and an enterprise or business version as I am sure there would be plenty of business opportunities - there really isn't many good stand alone software packages out there - Cisco and Adobe are the bigger ones but Cisco is hardware based and Adobe is -- well; Adobe... Not much in terms of being ready to roll right out of the box and I cannot think of any package easier than EMBY - Kodi and Plex do offer more functionality but they're just not anywhere the ease of use as EMBY is. None of the companies are to concerned with the content that's placed on the devices using their software or hardware - that's a legal nightmare for those dumb enough to sell access to copyrighted material without a licence or pirate through the media channels out there. Plex started as a dribble - scripting from the old XBMC source - now they're partnered with Amazon. They didn't get there concerned about what idiots do at their homes.. The LDAP request really is an overall great idea ; not just because of the functionality it could potentially bring to EMBY but security if it operates tandem with SSL/TLS enabled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef 3745 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) I would just handle your user situation yourself. Create your proxy server, and host your own page on the main domain which advertises the legitimacy for your product, be it your business to host live music shows for indie bands you support, or perhaps video blogs from your ever growing social media enterprise. Then have a link from your custom homemade site which directs to your log in page for emby in your proxy Problem solved. If you want people to have access to your server on their devices trough an emby app, they can add your domain to the host info and port 443. Sure people could do that for illegal purposes, but I can see some great mainstream legit companies and organizations using this method. I was thinking about doing it for my band (shameless promotion...) Union City ... (Shameless ... Unioncitymusic.com) lol! I would then create a mail service with my domain to send subscription info from people who want to listen and watch Union City shows, straight to my email, and then create account s for them in emby Totally legit usecase, and I can handle everything my self, no need to include emby devs at all Edited July 23, 2017 by chef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Untoten 296 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) The bigger issue for all requests is cost/benefit and what percentage of users will receive the most benefit from any given feature. In the list of things we'd like to accomplish, there are a lot of items that will benefit a lot more users than this request (or the LDAP one) will because the vast, vast majority of Emby users are households with < 10 users. What metrics are you basing this on? Are you indicating that Emby has access to our users lists for our servers? Obviously anonymous usage data is unrelated, as you cannot tell by who watches what items/channels, whether or not a user would rather login using LDAP, so this is difficult to say objectively. Also, LDAP is now the most supported active FR there is [1], and the 3rd in Emby's entire history [1], and the 4th most liked post on the forum, ever [1]. So I am not sure how one can say many users may not benefit, when the community seems to be showing its desire in droves. Especially when other github contributors seemingly have made great strides in regard to this functionality: https://github.com/MediaBrowser/Emby/pull/1885 https://github.com/MediaBrowser/Emby/pull/2139 [1] https://emby.media/community/index.php?/best-content/ Edited July 24, 2017 by Untoten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14910 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 We do not track your user lists nor what you are watching. We do, however, know how many devices are in use by our Premiere subscribers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Untoten 296 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) We do not track your user lists nor what you are watching. We do, however, know how many devices are in use by our Premiere subscribers. What percentage of users are premiere? Also, you are only taking one factor into account. Even if the number of admins with 10+ users does not mean they would not benefit from this functionality. It is useful also to admins that may have 5 users, but host many services which they wish to have uniform login credentials. Even some companies have less that 10 employees, it does not mean they want separate logins for each service and could not benefit from LDAP, etc. Edited July 24, 2017 by Untoten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest plexman Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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