Emby Theater - Option for MadVR Disappeared

[speedingcheetah 39]

And in the new app?

Auto

Yes

PC

Auto

yes

No

 

I can't tell any difference with the madvr like scaling and smooth motion on or off..The display sync setting makes things a tad ghosty like or motion blur like....i don't like that.

Edited May 7, 2017 by speedingcheetah

[Luke 37022]

Try auto copy back

[speedingcheetah 39]

Try auto copy back

just tried that...no change.

 

updated to 2.6.3....same

[Guest asrequested]

Try auto copy back

 

HWA isn't working

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by Doofus

[speedingcheetah 39]

HWA isn't working

 

 

How do u pull up  that stats overlay?

Edited May 7, 2017 by speedingcheetah

[markyp 21]

See the testing thread... #517

Edited May 7, 2017 by markyp

[ybnl 6]

Well, I'm really not happy with that update. First, you didn't communicate about it. At least an email would have been great. I've spent the last two days trouble shooting my display until I figured out the issue was coming from Emby. Losing MadVR is really an issue for me. Frame Rate switch seems to be gone. Worst, LUTs are gone. And MPV post process is no match to MadVR ones. I subscribed to Premiere to help you move forward and, from my point of view, we're going backward.

[Jdiesel 1113]

Mpv should have been added in as an optional player not a full replacement. At the very least this should have remained an optional beta until it was ready. Completing wiping out existing features of ET without any communication and replacing it with a completely different and not ready automatic updated version is a sure way to piss of users.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Jdiesel

[speedingcheetah 39]

Well, I'm really not happy with that update. First, you didn't communicate about it. At least an email would have been great. I've spent the last two days trouble shooting my display until I figured out the issue was coming from Emby. Losing MadVR is really an issue for me. Frame Rate switch seems to be gone. Worst, LUTs are gone. And MPV post process is no match to MadVR ones. I subscribed to Premiere to help you move forward and, from my point of view, we're going backward.

 

 

Mpv should have been added in as an optional player not a full replacement. At the very least this should have remained an optional beta until it was ready. Completing wiping out existing features of ET without any communication and replacing it with a completely different and not ready automatic updated version is a sure way to piss of users.

 

Only way one would have known about the change...is to follow the testing forum thread.

And I too expressed concern as to this switch as E.T only recently started actually playing nice with my multi monitor setup and with madVr tweaked the same as with MPC-HC, looks amazing. I had asked on the testing forum for when they planned to push MPV to the release version...and if it was going to be just an additional feature...but soon found out that MPV replaces everything and that it would be pushed out soon.

 

I personally haven't had any issues with the new MPV based E.T in my tests...it just works and is noticeably quicker and smoother.  The picture quality just isn't nearly as good as with MadVr though. Yes, MPV itself can be configured to your liking via a special custom config file, but you have to make it.  Until such settings are written into Emby Settings it self...that is. 

[Luke 37022]

The benefits of MPV are much more stable playback, significantly faster startup, significantly reduced CPU usage, and a very rich developer API. It also very actively developed. Previously with our video player everything was home-built, and we were finding ourselves getting overwhelmed with various things such as cpu usage, random failures with certain files, issues that only occur with one graphics card vs. another, etc. Additionally, as the player was relying on Windows components, it was subject to stability problems based on a user's system setup.

 

In one fell swoop all of those problems are gone now. We're seeing feedback along the lines of:

 

 

it just works and is noticeably quicker and smoother.

just a quick note to say i think it has worked. the movies tha twere causing issues seem to be ok now.

 

 

Been following the theater/mpv test thread and working with the betas and I have to say job well done

 

Yes there are certainly some growing pains, but it won't be very long before we've gotten through them and all is forgotten. For the high end audience, MPV supports many of the same filters as MadVR. We just need to learn what they are and we're happy to expose them for configuration in the UI.

[speedingcheetah 39]

O...so it would seem that Plex uses MPV.

 

https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/207338798-Advanced-Configuration

Edited May 8, 2017 by speedingcheetah

[Jdiesel 1113]

O...so it would seem that Plex uses MPV.

 

https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/207338798-Advanced-Configuration

Have a look through the PMP forums if you have some free time and see all of the issues they are having. While not all are related to mpv itself there are many issues with shudder, audio dropsout, hardware decoding, audio sync, and seeking. The short version is PMP with mpv is dead and anyone who is serious about proper playback has moved onto Kodi with one of the Plex plugins. Edited May 8, 2017 by Jdiesel

[Luke 37022]

That is spinning thing in a way that is not accurate. Every section of the community outside of General & Feature requests are going to be filled with issues. That goes for both us and them, because that's what the support community is for.

 

The important thing to remember is that both kodi and mpv are ffmpeg based. You are perceiving that there is some kind of major difference but they are not as different as you think.

[Jdiesel 1113]

Absolutely. The forums of any software tend to only highlight the issues rather than then the positives. If I go purely based on my own experience, ffmpeg or not, Kodi is the leader when it comes to playback. HWA, refresh rate switching, audio sync, supported formats, especially if you are using bleeding edge hardware all just work. My experience with mpv comes from Plex Media Player on windows and Linux. I couldn't get a consistant audio sync with it, sometimes it was 60ms, the next video was 120ms, play the same video again and it was 0ms. Lots of skipped frames even with powerful hardware. Audio popping and hisses especially after seeking.

 

I may be overly critical of mpv based off of an experience of a different implementation of it but reading the beta thread I see the same issues appearing with Emby. I haven't tested the new version of ET yet myself as my media room is under renovation but have been turned of ET due to this change. Whatever playback software I use in my media room requires support for 3dluts which leaves Kodi and madVR. I hope that external player support is at the least added back in.

[speedingcheetah 39]

Absolutely. The forums of any software tend to only highlight the issues rather than then the positives. If I go purely based on my own experience, ffmpeg or not, Kodi is the leader when it comes to playback. HWA, refresh rate switching, audio sync, supported formats, especially if you are using bleeding edge hardware all just work. My experience with mpv comes from Plex Media Player on windows and Linux. I couldn't get a consistant audio sync with it, sometimes it was 60ms, the next video was 120ms, play the same video again and it was 0ms. Lots of skipped frames even with powerful hardware. Audio popping and hisses especially after seeking.

 

I may be overly critical of mpv based off of an experience of a different implementation of it but reading the beta thread I see the same issues appearing with Emby. I haven't tested the new version of ET yet myself as my media room is under renovation but have been turned of ET due to this change. Whatever playback software I use in my media room requires support for 3dluts which leaves Kodi and madVR. I hope that external player support is at the least added back in.

I tried Kodi while back(like 3+yrs ago)...but could not figure out for the life of me how to get it to work and setup for live tv with my Prime tuner. Plugin or whatever there was never worked and hated the GUI. Never got any useful help from their forums. Emby worked right of the box, super easy to get setup and was much more the style software i was looking for (replacment for WMC). As far as Plex...did not even support the Prime when i tried it years ago. I played with a co-workers Plex server recently....but didn't really like it. Already invested my time and membership for Emby. Not to mention the illustrious "Luke" the system architect here....development of Emby appears to be this guys full time job  Love to see such interaction with product users....even when things change that may or may not be to the certain users preference. The MadVr E.T is killer for me and i'll stick to it if i have to, but still want to test new things out occasionally. Only minor annoyance right now is the stupid guide start alignment/scrolling thing in E.T.(different topic thread).

Edited May 8, 2017 by speedingcheetah

[ybnl 6]

I stopped using Plex and revoked my premium account because I was tired of updates that were useless for me. I'm using LUTs to calibrate my display. I reach an image quality that is impossible otherwise. Removing MadVR and LUTs is a big issue (film on my display looks like shit now). Concerning image post treatment nothing beats MadVR.

 

MadVr brought me to Emby. Then I liked the software. Frankly without MadVR I don't see a lot of differences between Plex and Emby now. As a lifetime member I really feel robbed. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by ybnl

[puithove 208]

Apparently mpv is capable of using 3D-LUT, take a look at the manual https://mpv.io/manual/stable/ and search for "ICC".  I don't have any experience with it so I can't say anything more about it.  But sometimes it's best to do some digging before assuming.

[ybnl 6]

I did some digging concerning Mpv. Documentation isn't very clear and from what I understood it's not really 3Dlut but more color profile (ICC = 1D Lut). Second it's awfully easy to use with madVR. Nothing is really well documented and straightforward with mpv. You have to fumble with parameters for years to achieve anything. I prefer watching films!

 

That's why I chose Emby (and not Kodi or Plex). I calibrated my display using dispalGUI. Generated a 3Dlut and voila picture quality was insane. And frankly dispalGui, colorspaces and other display parameters are complicated enough to avoid struggling with mpv's. I think I will go back to Kodi.

[Luke 37022]

I did some digging concerning Mpv. Documentation isn't very clear and from what I understood it's not really 3Dlut but more color profile (ICC = 1D Lut). Second it's awfully easy to use with madVR. Nothing is really well documented and straightforward with mpv. You have to fumble with parameters for years to achieve anything. I prefer watching films!

 

That's why I chose Emby (and not Kodi or Plex). I calibrated my display using dispalGUI. Generated a 3Dlut and voila picture quality was insane. And frankly dispalGui, colorspaces and other display parameters are complicated enough to avoid struggling with mpv's. I think I will go back to Kodi.

 

The target audience for MPV is developers who would like to embed it in their application. From that standpoint their documentation is very, very good. 

[ybnl 6]

Yeah. That's cool for developers. I, as a user, feel that I've contributed (with money) to a project that is going backward in term of color space, picture quality. Also, I've discovered that some Bluray ISO don't work any more (they used to). From my point of view, removing madVR without communicating with your users is just plain rude. 

[puithove 208]

Searching google for "mpv 3dlut" returns some items of interest.  People requesting the feature, and also people asking for help using the feature.

 

https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/issues/2981 - includes a response from one of the mpv developers (haasn) basically saying it's in there.

 

https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/issues/3120 - gives some examples of how to use it.

 

There are some others also.  You might find something in there.

[ybnl 6]

As I said it seems MPV could only understand 1D Lut. It will downconvert 3D Lut to 1D = result will look inferior to MadVR (crappy from my point of view). There is a reason why a lot of people use MadVR : quality. 

[Guest asrequested]

Yeah. That's cool for developers. I, as a user, feel that I've contributed (with money) to a project that is going backward in term of color space, picture quality. Also, I've discovered that some Bluray ISO don't work any more (they used to). From my point of view, removing madVR without communicating with your users is just plain rude.

Mpv doesn't support ISO. You have to extract them or mount them to a folder. Mpv needs the folder structure, to be able to read the files.

 

"bd://[title][/device] --bluray-device=PATH

 

Play a Blu-ray disc. Currently, this does not accept ISO files. Instead, you must mount the ISO file as filesystem, and point --bluray-device to the mounted directory directly."

 

Though, it would appear it's on the radar. So checking periodically, is probably a good idea.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Doofus

[daedalus 430]

Comparing tweaked MadVr settings i use vs the best available set MPV settings in the new Emby Theater.  The better detail with MadVr is night and day.

 

For whatever reason, the .gif i made won't play and even attached does not work...so...regular stills then. attached since posting them inline appears to be degrading them.

 

First pic is MadVr, second MPV.  Big differance in details seen in the lions face and hair.

 

EDIT: attached pics.

 

looks a bit oversharped for my eye, but ok its up to you, if you like this eg adaptive sharpen or superres are available for mpv too, the shader files just need to be added by yourself

Edited May 8, 2017 by daedalus

[speedingcheetah 39]

looks a bit oversharped for my eye, but ok its up to you, if you like this eg adaptive sharpen or superres are available for mpv too, the shader files just need to be added by yourself

This may look oversharp to some...but those screengrabs of MadVr setting were for my laptop settings....it doesn't have that great of a display...quite blurred imo and can't adjust. So, i can compensate with lots of post processing like sharpness filters to make video look really good on the built in lcd.

 

My desktop monitor(HP 25xi) is much sharper(and adjustable), thus i don't have nearly as much sharpening via codec settings. If u look at the test images on a already sharp lcd, then they may look oversharp. (unless i am really close to the lcd, i don't see any over sharp artifacts.)

 

I have done some tests with trying to get such filters/shaders to work on mpv...but have not succeeded. Shotgun method things ..lol...probably doing something wrong.

Wish they could just include them with MPV/Emby...and just toggle them in the app settings.

 

And I also wish that Emby could have both MPV and MadVr implementation so users can select what they want to use...but i have no idea if that is even technically possible.

Edited May 8, 2017 by speedingcheetah