Being nagged to purchase Emby Premiere

[screwattackthis 5]

 

 

Well, maybe they should close source it, and then charge for it up front instead?   Like a lot of products do. 

 

They have done that, actually...

 

 

 

Nah, the devs are awesome in that they let you use the software pretty much in it's full form without locking everything down. yes, it nags, and yes, it may be a bit more aggressive than it needs/should be.  How about posting something constructive rather than just bitching?  

 

You're the only one bitching?

 

 

And the FOSS community attacks people that want everything THEIR way, but aren't willing to contribute. Code, time, resources or money.   And get angry when people disagree with them.

Precisely like what you're doing.  

 

I have contributed code, time, and/or money to many FOSS projects including Emby.  I haven't gotten angry at anyone, you have.

 

 

 

I presented a viable alternative that you could take. Published publicly or not... If you kept it local/private, it wouldn't impact Luke and the other devs at all, now would it?  But you immediately jump to undercutting these guys.  Says a hell of a lot more about you than it does me, doesn't it. 

 

It's a GPL licensed project.  If they don't want that to happen, they can either consider how their actions are affecting the community as a whole or they shouldn't have used the GPL.  If they keep this up, this is something that will happen.  Since you've clearly missed my point, this is something I don't want to happen to them.

 

You can act upset all you want, I don't really care.  I stand by what I said.  This is a bad move that's going to hurt the project as a whole, and sitting there calling everyone unhappy with it "self entitled" isn't a solution to anything.

 

And seriously, let's get real.  We all know what people use Emby for.  This whole "you should pay for everything you like" argument completely falls apart when the project itself is for, ya know, not paid for content.  

Edited February 3, 2017 by screwattackthis

[Jdiesel 1113]

No you should pay for what you think has value whether it be hardware, software, media, or services. Many people pay for media they like by going to the theatre, buying physical media, paying for subscription services like Netflix, and paying for cable while at same time downloading media online. You seem to think Emby has no value as you aren't willing to pay anything for it, most of us on here disagree and those who don't accept the limitations of the free software. Why don't you dedicated 1000's of hours of your time developing software then give it away for free?

[Koleckai Silvestri 1150]

Nah, the worst part of FOSS are the users that defend projects tooth and nail when the project starts making shitty decisions.  These are the ones that encourage the project to continue making bad decisions which will only hurt the project further.

 

 

I recall them saying the software was Open Source. I don't ever recall them saying it was Free Open Source Software. And yes there is a difference between the two. There is no requirement that Open Source Software is also free. In addition to this, not all of the clients are Open Source Software.

 

And as stated above, you're welcome to fork and modify the software to remove the nagging.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Koleckai Silvestri

[screwattackthis 5]

No you should pay for what you think has value whether it be hardware, software, media, or services. Many people pay for media they like by going to the theatre, buying physical media, paying for subscription services like Netflix, and paying for cable while at same time downloading media online. You seem to think Emby has no value as you aren't willing to pay anything for it, most of us on here disagree and those who don't accept the limitations of the free software. Why don't you dedicated 1000's of hours of your time developing software then give it away for free?

 

I don't know how many times I have to say that I have paid for Emby software so this argument is completely invalid and meaningless.

 

I recall them saying the software was Open Source. I don't ever recall them saying it was Free Open Source Software. And yes there is a difference between the two. There is no requirement that Open Source Software is also free. In addition to this, not all of the clients are Open Source Software.

 

It's GPL'd.  That is, by definition, FOSS.  Simple as that.  There's nothing wrong with premiere, it does not go against FOSS in any way.  However, they're promoting it in a very terrible way that's only going to lose them money.  But, hey, you guys apparently want the devs to make less.

[Guest asrequested]

I think Luke and ebr have a lot of experience in this field. I think they know what they're doing.

[Waldonnis 148]

And seriously, let's get real.  We all know what people use Emby for.  This whole "you should pay for everything you like" argument completely falls apart when the project itself is for, ya know, not paid for content.

 

Huh?  That's an awfully big brush you're painting with.  While I'm not foolish enough to think that people don't pirate content at all (I know several that do, and every single one of them is a Plex user ), there are many that rip/serve only content that they own within their own homes (like myself).  Now, you could argue about DMCA and fair use, but that's a whole other discussion that has no bearing on what Emby charges for or the FOSS licensing.  And really, this is a silly assertion and could be used against nearly any video/audio tool that's open source (ffmpeg, eac3to, tsmuxer, Kodi, x264/x265, etc.) and even many professional/productivity apps.

 

It's not uncommon for businesses to open source just part of their product catalog, but they're not obligated to open up the rest of their offerings just because of this.  I get the "purist" position when it comes to FOSS, as I've soaked in it having been a Debian toolchain maintainer in the past and gone a few rounds with Stallman, but I think it's an unrealistic expectation/demand for everyone to share that opinion.  To those that do, then maybe this just isn't the project that you want to support, which is fine.  Ideology is often the driving force in forking/relicensing of popular FOSS projects anyway, so a fork also remains an option for those that disagree with how the Emby team operates or handles their offerings.

 

This is a bad move that's going to hurt the project as a whole

 

How so?  Please explain this.

[Koleckai Silvestri 1150]

It's GPL'd.  That is, by definition, FOSS.  Simple as that.  There's nothing wrong with premiere, it does not go against FOSS in any way.  However, they're promoting it in a very terrible way that's only going to lose them money.  But, hey, you guys apparently want the devs to make less.

 

Maybe... I am pretty sure that one can legally argue that the GPL provided with the source code is invalid and doesn't apply. Or maybe you didn't read the entirety of the copy provided.

 

The license actually hasn't been applied to either Emby or MediaBrowser.

[screwattackthis 5]

Maybe... I am pretty sure that one can legally argue that the GPL provided with the source code is invalid and doesn't apply. Or maybe you didn't read the entirety of the copy provided.

 

The license actually hasn't been applied to either Emby or MediaBrowser.

 

They would lose that argument, fast.  It's very clearly meant to be GPL'd (with both licenses existing and developers clearly stating it is) and with outside code contributions, yeah.  They couldn't just flip the switch on that one.

 

But this has nothing to do with anything.

[arrbee99 1559]

Just wondering if someone could please explain / define nagging in this (Emby) context. A screenshot  / what it appears on / how often / how big it is. There is a fine but vague line between encouraging someone to purchase (which worked for me) and nagging which annoys / puts people off / makes them look elsewhere. AS the server and basic functionality are free, persuasion should be gentle, not in your face, though obviously everyone has their own definition of this.

[breezytm 124]

I wouldn't know if Emby nags anyone because I paid for Emby Premiere the first week I started using it. Well back then it was Media Browser. It was my way of saying thank you. Not that I am saying anyone should do what I did. But that's one way of not being "nagged" while also being supportive. 

Edited February 4, 2017 by breezytm

[shermanp 3]

Just wondering if someone could please explain / define nagging in this (Emby) context. A screenshot  / what it appears on / how often / how big it is. There is a fine but vague line between encouraging someone to purchase (which worked for me) and nagging which annoys / puts people off / makes them look elsewhere. AS the server and basic functionality are free, persuasion should be gentle, not in your face, though obviously everyone has their own definition of this.

Hi

 

I very much debated whether I should post this or not, considering it's my very first post to the forum. However I feel I wanted to say something, and answer the questions quoted.

 

First, some background. I am very much a casual on-again, off-again user of emby. I used it for a while around a year or so ago (maybe a bit longer). I mainly used the web client to watch videos, and the (free) android client to listen to my music collection on my phone occasionally. After a windows reinstall, I never bothered to reinstall emby.

 

A few weeks ago, I decided to give emby another go, and I have to admit I have been rather shocked at how much functionality has now been put behind a paywall, including metadata download (it looks like anyway), the now paid android app etc.

 

And the nag screen. The first time it popped up, I was like "hmm... ok.. a little annoying, but ok". I got rather more annoyed when I discovered that it wasn't a one time thing, but seemed to occur once a day.

 

Then, the latest server update added a 15 second countdown to said nag screen, which seems to display daily.

 

So, to answer your question arrbee99, it is a full window nag screen that pops up when you press play on any (video at least) media. It now has a 15 second countdown before you can dismiss it. It appears to occur once daily. See screenshot below.

 

 

I feel it is rather sad the direction the project is headed to. When I last used emby, I had the feeling of "this is really nice software, and if you want to support the devs, you can, and get some nifty extra features."

 

Now, the feeling is, rightly or not: "Here's some of it. Now, pony up to get the rest of it, else we'll keep nagging you until you do. Have a nice day!"

 

I'm sorry this ended up being my first post, but as a very light, casual user, the experience this time, compared to the last time I used emby has been very underwhelming, and it only appears to be getting worse.

 

Edit: and just to be even more annoying, because I clicked back instead of continue, it popped up a second time this evening

Edited February 4, 2017 by shermanp

[maegibbons 1267]

I have no sympathy.

 

If this software was 1000's then I could understand resistance to "supporting" it. At 4.99 per month or 99 for lifetime its worth it whatever your usage level.

 

Being nagged once a day i do not think unreasonable at all.

 

Krs

 

Mark

[mellomade 140]

If this software was 1000's then I could understand resistance to "supporting" it. At 4.99 per month or 99 for lifetime its worth it whatever your usage level.

 

 

^^1000 times this.

 

For all the effort you spend setting up and configuring a file server, ripping movies and/or tv shows, setting up OTA antennas for an HDHomeRun, organizing music collections, and on and on and on - just spend the $99 bucks and be done with it.

[breezytm 124]

I have no sympathy.

 

If this software was 1000's then I could understand resistance to "supporting" it. At 4.99 per month or 99 for lifetime its worth it whatever your usage level.

 

Being nagged once a day i do not think unreasonable at all.

 

Krs

 

Mark

 

I disagree. If they want to advertise features to convince people into buying Premiere they should move it to a pan on the side of the OSD that advertise all day but does not disturb the user's viewing experience. Also, that pan should be in the admin console as well. Emby is not currently at the position to dictate what a customer should do when they have a bigger competitor that is doing the complete opposite. To me, that is going down the wrong path. 

 

Just let non-Premiere users utilize the Web client as they should. What they need to do is getting more creative by innovating irresistible Emby Premiere features. That should drive a customer to buy. A great example: Plex got so many Plexpass users with Plex Cloud. That was innovative and thoughtful. A couple years ago I had a discussion with Plex devs regarding, eventually, making Plexpass features available to the Public. They were doing it so much that buying a Plexpass account was pointless. Plexpass users were clueless as to what the benefits were beside early access to beta software. I am currently 100% in the Cloud with Plex Cloud thanks to my Plexpass. I hope it remains a Plexpass feature. I am guessing it will be considering it cost money to maintain the servers.

 

Can't be too much of a giver. I don't use 90% of the Emby Premiere features. My reasoning for purchasing Premiere, and at the time it was called donation, was to support an underdog with potentials. Plex devs had just pissed me off for not listening. Now it has a fancy word "Emby Premiere." Like most, it was about helping the solution move forward. If they have a plan, today, they want to achieve that will be revolutionary; I would donate/buy again if they seek help. I think over the years they have really shaken things up. From MB to Emby. The money doesn't mean much. It's the experience of growing up with the solution, the devs, the community and being able to give your "two cents" and see the devs taking it into consideration. I feel like I am getting my money's worth because I am more involved than the average Joe. 

 

Emby Premiere features that I use: 

 

"Free Apps" - Should already be free.  

"Emby Theater" - Like "Free Apps" should already be free.

"Backup and Restore" - The only one I use and it works great. Should be a core feature rather than a plugin. Similarly to Trakt.tv, Time Lord, and Notifications. They should also all require Emby Premiere.   

Edited February 4, 2017 by breezytm

[ebr 14910]

including metadata download (it looks like anyway),

 

Metadata download does not require Premiere.

[Abobader 2942]

Good day,

 

Really some of these type of threads rise from time to time, best ...

 

@@Luke and @@ebr

 

To do compare list of free and Premiere list for the emby server / web client that will be clear for everyone at the main web site, simply table compare will do.

 

My best

[shermanp 3]

Metadata download does not require Premiere.

My mistake, sorry. I can see how to do it now.

[Luke 37046]

My mistake, sorry. I can see how to do it now.

 

if you can tell us what gave you this impression we will correct whatever display needs clarification. Thanks !

[shermanp 3]

if you can tell us what gave you this impression we will correct whatever display needs clarification. Thanks !

 

Hi Luke,

 

It was more I didn't really take the time to check, combined with the mentions of cover art in premiere membership made me assume.

 

It took me a bit to figure out that that "refresh" means "download missing/wrong metadata".

 

The reason I hadn't looked into it was because my metadata is downloaded by other software already.

 

So, again, my apologies for getting that one wrong.

[Rumbaar 12]

Like I said, EMBY has too much free inclusion and so then people think it's not worth the "upgrade".

 

Things people might take for granted, parental control, multiple users, etc .. the likes of PLEX require you to have a Plex Pass to use. So if you look at it for value for money and support for the services you already use, then it's worth the payment easily.

[arrbee99 1559]

Hi

 

I very much debated whether I should post this or not, considering it's my very first post to the forum. However I feel I wanted to say something, and answer the questions quoted.

 

First, some background. I am very much a casual on-again, off-again user of emby. I used it for a while around a year or so ago (maybe a bit longer). I mainly used the web client to watch videos, and the (free) android client to listen to my music collection on my phone occasionally. After a windows reinstall, I never bothered to reinstall emby.

 

A few weeks ago, I decided to give emby another go, and I have to admit I have been rather shocked at how much functionality has now been put behind a paywall, including metadata download (it looks like anyway), the now paid android app etc.

 

And the nag screen. The first time it popped up, I was like "hmm... ok.. a little annoying, but ok". I got rather more annoyed when I discovered that it wasn't a one time thing, but seemed to occur once a day.

 

Then, the latest server update added a 15 second countdown to said nag screen, which seems to display daily.

 

So, to answer your question arrbee99, it is a full window nag screen that pops up when you press play on any (video at least) media. It now has a 15 second countdown before you can dismiss it. It appears to occur once daily. See screenshot below.

 

 

I feel it is rather sad the direction the project is headed to. When I last used emby, I had the feeling of "this is really nice software, and if you want to support the devs, you can, and get some nifty extra features."

 

Now, the feeling is, rightly or not: "Here's some of it. Now, pony up to get the rest of it, else we'll keep nagging you until you do. Have a nice day!"

 

I'm sorry this ended up being my first post, but as a very light, casual user, the experience this time, compared to the last time I used emby has been very underwhelming, and it only appears to be getting worse.

 

Edit: and just to be even more annoying, because I clicked back instead of continue, it popped up a second time this evening

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I do think that screen seems to be getting worse and wish it would be dialed back to at least the previous version. As the server is free and watching via the web is free it should be free but not annoying, especially as an occasional user. But yes there should also be infrequent hints to try to get people to part with actual money, as the devs find it comes in pretty useful. Also, I guess, if you're an occasional user and the reminders are also occasional, you may find they coincide quite a bit and so get annoying (if that makes sense).

 

I realise its a balancing act and i haven't been able to come up with a brilliant solution, but think there's a danger of boring people into submission.

[overClocked! 63]

"Free Apps" - Should already be free.  

"Emby Theater" - Like "Free Apps" should already be free.

 

I'm curious as to why you you think so? I know that some of the core team apps are free at the moment (for example AppleTV 4). A lot of work goes into the creation, upkeep, support and improvement of these apps. That is an understatement. A one-time payment of < $5 for the mobile apps is a pretty good deal for those that don't have a lot of money and can't afford $99 for a bunch of features they wouldn't otherwise use.

 

I, like you, got in on the ground floor by making a small donation to the MediaBrowser2 project because I wanted to show my appreciation for giving me a viable alternative to MyMovies. I was "grandfathered" in to the MediaBrowser 3 --> Emby Premiere Lifetime tier as a reward for my previous support, so I don't see the nag screens that apparently have become more pronounced either. Even, so, I found value in these apps and paid separately to unlock each iOS / Android app I gift to my relatives. I have personally paid for monthly and lifetime subscriptions for friends and relatives when they see the value of this incredible cross-platform software. I always recommend the Lifetime subscription to clients to give them the most bang for their buck. Elimination of nag screens never even comes into play in this decision.

 

I think I would be terribly annoyed if I saw nag screens during playback or before each title is allowed to begin. But from what I'm reading, it's rather infrequent (perhaps once or twice a day?). For some, that's still too much. But I ask them to consider the ads they see when playing a YouTube video or video from any of the online news outlets.

 

Let the Emby Team keep a roof overhead and feed their families while they continue to provide you with one of the best media enjoyment solutions available today. An occasional reminder from the team that you can further enhance that experience by subscribing to Emby Premiere is a reasonable allowance.

[smartaxel 15]

I'm going to chime in here.  

 

I'm a new user.  I just started with Emby a few weeks ago, so I don't have any history with how the product started etc...  I first tried Plex because (honestly) it came up in searches and I'd heard far more about it. .  I installed Plex, and it didnt have the features I wanted,(it  couldnt do live tv with the DVR)..  I paid for Plex when I got it because it was a requirement for their DVR version, there was no free version with DVR, so it wasnt an option.  Then I came across Emby, and it was far better.. Live TV is excellent, and the DVR feature is easy to use.  I paid for Emby the day I got it..  It's a good product, and it saves me money I was previously paying for cable.. 

 

That being said, I have never seen the "nag" screen because I paid for the product on day one..  If I were to give an opinion, I think the "nag" timer may be a bit excessive. Perhaps, some features are eliminated from the "free" version instead.  So, that way you have partial functionality for free... But, at the same time, it's pretty cool that you have almost full functionality, and just have to site through a few seconds reminder every so often. 

 

When I have a problem, I post it in this forum, and one of the Emby guys has answered each of my posts, even late at night.  I can't expect that for free. If you want a good product and you want support, upgrades, and bug fixes, you really do need to pay a bit.  Compared to cable, this product is cheap, especially the "lifetime" membership.  Folks will pay $6.00 for an overpriced cup of coffee, but complain when they pay $5.00 for live TV, DVR, and Media on every device in their home.. That makes no sense to me at all.  If you like a product and it serves you well, pay for it.     It keeps the company in business and it keeps the product available to the consumer.  People don't work for free forever, and you just can't expect that.

 

Just my 2 cents.  

[breezytm 124]

I'm curious as to why you you think so? 

 

In discussions, often in forums and clearly in politics, people tend to side with those who shares their views. I am not like that. I try to look at everything in a bipartisan point of view. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and their point of views. I, like you, paid for it from day one.  At the time I believe I paid $30 bucks. Just because you and I did it doesn't necessarily means everyone must do it. We must not speak to them as if they must. There is no reason for them to do anything they do not desire. We have to learn to listen without passing judgements or lecture people on what we believe. Besides there are multiple way of participating and helping out. Helping someone who is having an issue is a great way of contributing. Helps @@Luke @@ebr focus on things that are vital to this project.

 

To answer your question. "Why do I think so?"...Well, in my opinion, any apps writing by Emby dev team on any platform should be free because without that app you can not access their "free" server. Do not forget this is an open source project. Asking users to pay for anything that is preventing them from utilizing the project as a whole is not right. However, I am more than OK with them having more than one app for a platform and charge for one. Or a community member decide to write his own program and charges for it. Again that's MY POINT of view on the take. 

 

I was a very active member in the Plex forum before I decided to walk away and I brought a really large group of users with me here. I never once told them they must donate. I told them it would be nice to. I told them the same thing about SB, CP, SAB, etc...Some did, some didn't. Some eventually did after using the product a year and change later. But that was up to them to do as they pleased. Who am i to tell people what to do or lecture them on what they must do. The way some of these comments are coming out, it as if people are shaming them for not signing up. I personally do not think that is OK at all. 

[breezytm 124]

Again there are many ways for Emby to persuade people to get Emby premiere. There was this plugin called "Movie Theme Videos", not quite sure if it still exists, but the minute I saw it I had to have it   so I went and purchased it ASAP. I would love to see something like that in Emby Web Client and other apps if possible. That was a bread winner.

 

As always, not telling Emby team how to run their business. I am sure they are more than capable of doing so on their own. We are a long way from MediaBrowser. Just giving my "two cents" on the matter.