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Being nagged to purchase Emby Premiere


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Jdiesel

This topic has been beaten to death on this forum. In short you aren't likely to get a ton of support on the forum because I would wager that a large portion of the active members on the forum are paying users. As a paying user is is difficult to side with a person complaining about the free version being annoying or intrusive when you have supported the project yourself and would like to see others do the same. I would bet that other fellow Premiere users would agree that attracting more paying users is the best way to improve Emby and insure that it continues to live on.

 

Just because the source code (some of it) is opensource doesn't mean it should be free or even compared to other opensource projects. Emby is a business and they have decided that this is the business model they would like to proceed with. I would suspect that the loss of a few non-paying users is far less important than generating sales from a few users who where on the fence and had now reason to upgrade. I always get a laugh when a non paying user threatens to stop using the software and use something else as if the future of the project solely hinges on them using it. Even if you don't want to pay for something it is quite apparent that they are many that will.

 

I like to think of it this way,Emby is like is like a nice pasta dinner. Sure you could go out and gather the ingredients yourself for free. Gather and mill the wheat, plant the tomatoes, hunt the venison then butcher it, milk the cow to make the cheese and let it age, etc. Eventually you have pieced together every thing you need to make your pasta and bolognese all for free too. You put it all together and it is amazing. You even post the recipe online so other can make it too, adjust the recipe to their taste, or just post comments or tweaks for everyone to enjoy. After making your dinner you would likely be very proud and want to share it with your family and friends but what if a stranger knocked at your door and wanted some? What if he told you he wanted a plate for free because you used free ingredients? If you didn't want to give he would just go elsewhere and get something else to eat for free. Would you tell them sure no problem you can have some for free but you will have to wait a few minutes? Probably not. What if he didn't like mushrooms, would you modify your recipe specifically for him and still not expect and compensation? Why should software be any different? It is a product/service just like going to a restaurant for a meal is. You are paying for the time, effort, and expertise of the chef, the staff that provide you with the service and support, and overhead costs to keep the business running. Emby is the meal, ffmpeg is just one of the ingredients. It is how you put the ingredients together that defines the final product.

Edited by Jdiesel
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cptlores

Nice analogy, but it would be more correct to say that you got the ingredients for free from a local welfare organization with the understanding that you would use them in the same spirit that they where given to you for free in the first place.

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tyr_88

Just the time to read this thread, I value greater than the lifetime license cost...

 

 

same here was trying to donate extra I choose to stay on monthly pay to contrib more because the support and product are worth it for me superior and I can see Emby being in a good place to be the go to service down the road

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BAlGaInTl

Nice analogy, but it would be more correct to say that you got the ingredients for free from a local welfare organization with the understanding that you would use them in the same spirit that they where given to you for free in the first place.

 

Exactly... but not.

 

If a person would be willing to assemble a team (lets call it a charitable organization) who collaborated with multiple welfare organizations and did all the legwork to provided not just  the raw food, but recurring dinners to many communities across multiple locations... That amount of work then took multiple people working full time in order to keep it going (cooks, managers, etc. etc.).  

 

Would they be wrong to ask for donations every time that people came to eat that free prepared dinner?  That's still in the spirit of the free food that they started with.  Without donations/money, the free dinner service will stop.

 

Similarly, the developers of Emby are providing a product/service that is greater than the sum of its parts.  You don't have to pay, but if you can afford to, you help ensure that project keeps going. 

Edited by BAlGaInTl
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cptlores
Would they be wrong to ask for donations every time that people came to eat that free prepared dinner?  That's still in the spirit of the free food that they started with.  Without donations/money, the free dinner service will stop.

 

No problem with that at all, the problem is when the chef (Emby) starts hanging over your shoulder asking you to donate every time you take a bite.

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BAlGaInTl

No problem with that at all, the problem is when the chef (Emby) starts hanging over your shoulder asking you to donate every time you take a bite.

 

Last I checked, that isn't how Emby worked.

 

Have the nags changed again?

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cptlores

The play button nag screen is still there. Only change is that the countdown timer was reduced from 15 to 10 seconds. Granted once you complete it, it goes away for 24h before it comes back again. But that doesn't make it any less annoying, especially since it has no business being there in the first place.

Edited by cptlores
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BAlGaInTl

The play button nag screen is still there. Only change is that the countdown timer was reduced from 15 to 10 seconds. Granted once you complete it, it goes away for 24h before it comes back again. But that doesn't make it any less annoying, especially since it has no business being there in the first place.

 

That isn't with "every bite" then.  It's with "every meal," which previously you said you were fine with.  It isn't re-nagging in the middle of playing something, or even on again on the same day.

 

I would bet that the 10 seconds would even be comparable 

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cptlores

That isn't with "every bite" then.  It's with "every meal," which previously you said you were fine with.  It isn't re-nagging in the middle of playing something, or even on again on the same day.

 

I would bet that the 10 seconds would even be comparable 

 

Fine, I will agree to some of that. For me every 24h means pretty much every time I want to play something, but that is just me. And there is a big difference between having a donation sign at the entrance and the waiter holding the dinner plate over your head while asking for donations.

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I guess the most troubling thing here is the perception that Emby is nothing but an assembly of readily-available, free components.

 

How do we change that perception?

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Jdiesel

I think it would be hard to change that perception as long as the project remains opensource. If you allow people to see the inner workings they will tend to focus on the components rather than overall product. The more you do to improve the overall experience the less the users will think of it as collection of tools and more of a single product. I think the Emby team has already done a great job of this and it is just a small handful of users that still think this way.

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cptlores

Please don't think that I am belittling the work that has gone into Emby. I am a software developer, I know very well how much work has gone into it. The single point of friction here is having a nag screen being inserted into the core of the free functionality. Something that is in conflict with the spirit off all the other tools that Emby use for free. If for example FFmpeg went the same route, you would then have something like a subscription nag watermark inserted into the video for 10 seconds regardless of being a Emby premium or not. And if more open source projects started acting this way, pretty soon you would undermine the whole idea of open source and we would be back to the nag-ware/shareware model that plagued software in the 90's.

Edited by cptlores
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BAlGaInTl

Fine, I will agree to some of that. For me every 24h means pretty much every time I want to play something, but that is just me. And there is a big difference between having a donation sign at the entrance and the waiter holding the dinner plate over your head while asking for donations.

 

 

Guess I don't see it that way.

 

So you'd be okay with the nag screen being there when you opened the app instead?  

 

Somehow I think the complaints would be the same regardless of where it was put.

 

I guess the most troubling thing here is the perception that Emby is nothing but an assembly of readily-available, free components.

 

How do we change that perception?

 

That's a tough one...

 

I don't know.  I don't see it that way.  As I said earlier, I see Emby as being much greater than the sum of it's parts.

 

Please don't think that I am belittling the work that has gone into Emby. I am a software developer, I know very well how much work has gone into it. The single point of friction here is having a nag screen being inserted into the core of the free functionality. Something that is in conflict with the spirit off all the other tools that Emby use for free. If for example FFmpeg went the same route, you would then have something like a subscription nag watermark inserted into the video for 10 seconds regardless of being a Emby premium or not. And if more open source projects started acting this way, pretty soon you would undermine the whole idea of open source and we would be back to the nag-ware/shareware model that plagued software in the 90's.

 

Emby is a niche project and would never reach the level of contribution/donation that a project like FFmpeg would.  It's understandable that they have to push a little harder to make the hard work pay off.

 

That being said, your example is flawed.  If FFmpeg decided to add a nag or watermark, the Emby devs could just remove that code or fork the project for their own use.  Come to think of it... as many have already pointed out, Emby users can do that too.

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cptlores

I personally would not have a problem with some top or bottom banner, same deal as your typical web ad. It is the full screen in your face with a countdown timer deal that is crossing the threshold.

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Deathsquirrel

No problem with that at all, the problem is when the chef (Emby) starts hanging over your shoulder asking you to donate every time you take a bite.

 

Only when you continually decline to contribute but keep showing up to dinner anyway.

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zigzagtshirt

The Emby team prices their product on what the market will allow; what people are willing to pay for it.  Obviously, people are willing to pay for a premium license, else Emby would not still be in business.  If they didn't offer a "fair" price, then people would not buy it in numbers that would sustain their business model.

 

This is called the free market.  The free market sets a fair price for any given product or service.  The free market has determined that paying for a premium license priced at X to unlock certain features, including removing the so-called "nag screen", is fair.

 

If you disagree with the fairness of this business model, then you have a vote.  Your vote is cast by not purchasing a premium license.  Those of us who disagree with you have cast our votes by purchasing a premium license.

 

The consumers decide who the winners and losers are in a market.  You can whine all you want that the price is not fair, but at the end of the day enough of us have decided that you are wrong; the price is fair.

 

Try calling Google and demand that they remove ads from your YouTube videos without you paying for the YouTube Red subscription because you have no use for the other YouTube Red features.  See how far that gets you.

Edited by zigzagtshirt
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cptlores

Time will tell.

When I first tried Emby, I liked what I saw and as a result I went premium for a while. But since I did not use any of the premium features it made no sense to continue being premium so I let it expire.

But if we go back to the time when I first tried Emby. What I do know is that if the nag screen had been there at the time, before I got to know Emby then most likely it would have been quickly uninstalled and never given a chance at all.

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  • 2 months later...
BAlGaInTl

The devs have not been silent on the issue.  I know that I've been asked my thoughts on it and what is disturbing about it.  Part of the receptiveness of the devs is most likely proportional to the delivery...

 

I wouldn't expect them to respond to a "bug" report that isn't a bug.

 

If you rarely use the product... then you rarely see the nag screen.  I understand your reservations on paying the Premier price, and working yourself to remove the nag is certainly within your prerogative.  That being said... I'm not sure the Emby forums are the right place to advertise that work.  You are essentially taking money from the pocket of the devs.

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I wouldn't expect them to respond to a "bug" report that isn't a bug.

 

Then they should close the issue.

 

 

 

If you rarely use the product... then you rarely see the nag screen.  I understand your reservations on paying the Premier price, and working yourself to remove the nag is certainly within your prerogative.  That being said... I'm not sure the Emby forums are the right place to advertise that work.  You are essentially taking money from the pocket of the devs.

 

Correct - I rarely see the nag screen. It was easy enough to remove it.

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Then they should close the issue.

 

Yes, I believe this discussion has run its course.  We adjusted the level of the intrusions.

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