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EVR is letterboxed, everything else is jerky


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@@stettler I had a chance to quickly try your MadVR settings, they help a lot, so thanks for that! By changing to dxva upscaling, the SD file now seems to play back smoothly, with no dropped frames - before I changed that setting - lots of dropped frames.

 

I am still getting some issues with HD files (dropped frames - jerkiness) using MadVR with those settings, but they seem to play back okay (or better) in EVR.

 

So, for now it looks like I can use EVR for HD and the modified MadVR for SD, a good workaround whilst I see if EVR gets fixed for SD files. I'll carry on monitoring as I am sure I do still get some glitching with HD files in EVR, but I have to watch for a few minutes before I notice them. 

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@@stettler, I have the refresh rate set to 1080p @ 50hz for the TV in the Nvidia driver settings - then use ET refresh rate switching to switch to 24 / 60 depending on file type.

Edited by Guest
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stettler

@@stettler I had a chance to quickly try your MadVR settings, they help a lot, so thanks for that! By changing to dxva upscaling, the SD file now seems to play back smoothly, with no dropped frames - before I changed that setting - lots of dropped frames.

 

 

Cool :) But with the graphic card you have, it really sound like it the integrated intel GPU (the HD 2500) that is doing all the job and not the Nvidia one.... The Nvidia should be able to handle a lot more than that easly.

 

 

@@stettler, I have the refresh rate set to 1080p @ 50hz for the TV in the Nvidia driver settings - then use ET refresh rate switching to switch to 24 / 60 depending on file type.

 

Is your TV really displaying that it is in 24p or 60Hz mode?

 

If you have some judder with HD video but no, or very little frames drop, then it's possible that the TV isn't changing to the right refresh rate. It may not even be consistant: With default setting, the TV may sometime change correctly and sometime not, even for the same video. (Sometime it may not switch correctly and just opening MadVR interface and saving setting (withtout any change) will make the TV switch)

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Cool :) But with the graphic card you have, it really sound like it the integrated intel GPU (the HD 2500) that is doing all the job and not the Nvidia one.... The Nvidia should be able to handle a lot more than that easly.

 

 

Hmm, that's annoying. Any idea how I shift the load to the Nvidia card from the Intel GPU - or any way to check which is doing what?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is your TV really displaying that it is in 24p or 60Hz mode?

 

If you have some judder with HD video but no, or very little frames drop, then it's possible that the TV isn't changing to the right refresh rate. It may not even be consistant: With default setting, the TV may sometime change correctly and sometime not, even for the same video. (Sometime it may not switch correctly and just opening MadVR interface and saving setting (withtout any change) will make the TV switch)

 

 

Yes, I can press the TV info button and it reports when it is at 1080p/24, although for both 50hz and 60hz it just shows 1080p. However, when I was messing around with reclock, that showed more definitive stats during playback and confirmed that refresh rate changed as it should - for 23.976fps video it showed a refresh rate of 23.973.

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stettler

Hmm, that's annoying. Any idea how I shift the load to the Nvidia card from the Intel GPU - or any way to check which is doing what?

 

I think GPU-Z may be able to show you which GPU is being used and the load.

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stettler

In ET, what hardware acceleration do you use?

 

I would say that "quick sync" will force the use of the Intel GPU. Nvenc (or whatever it is called) will force the Nvidia (even if it seems not be be recommanded). No idee which GPU will be choosen when on auto or "dxva2 copy back"

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Thanks @@stettler. GPU-Z is a good app, I installed it and can confirm that MadVR is using the Nvidia GPU and not the Intel GPU. The Intel GPU showed 0% or 1% throughout. The Nvidia GPU settles around 30% whilst playing back SD videos, but peaks up to 100% when playing back HD - which explains the stutters I see.

 

However, HD files 'seem' okay in EVR, I have noticed dropped frames before, but I need to monitor. I would prefer to play everything in EVR, to save having to switch, maybe that will be possible if the EVR letterboxing issue is fixed.

 

I am assuming that there is no way of seeing playback statistics whilst using EVR or EVR+? 

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stettler

It's weird that it use more CPU for those HD video as it should have less work to do...

 

What about EVR+? For me, it was playing everything fine except for the subtitles problem. But if you don't need subtitles...

 

And perhaps try to change the hardware acceleration in ET. Using "dxva2 copy back" is supposed to be best even with a Nvidia. But you can always try "quick sync" and see if that force the Intel GPU to do the work. Sure, it's crap compared to the Nvidia but if that work... :)

Edited by stettler
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Okay, I'll try that! 

 

EVR and EVR+ seem to work the same, I can't tell the difference between the two. I think the odd jerk that I see for HD files are the ones at 23.976 frame rate, where my graphics card is setting the refresh rate to 23.973 - so not quite an exact match, I think the dropped frames would be about every 3 or 4 minutes, I don't see them all, but the odd one or two.

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stettler

Okay, I'll try that! 

 

EVR and EVR+ seem to work the same, I can't tell the difference between the two. I think the odd jerk that I see for HD files are the ones at 23.976 frame rate, where my graphics card is setting the refresh rate to 23.973 - so not quite an exact match, I think the dropped frames would be about every 3 or 4 minutes, I don't see them all, but the odd one or two.

 

Oh! Myself, I don't have the black border problem with EVR+.

 

23.973/23.976 is the same. It's either 23p, or 24p, or 25 (50i) or 50 or 60. Don't worry about the rounding-up.

(And frames drop, as displayed by the decoder, are not the result of that I think. They are the results of problems with frames or having to discard data because it can't keep-up. They are not the result of normal operation. Skipping frames, or duplicating frames to change the refresh rate is normal operation)

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Guest asrequested

QuickSync is only enabled if the Intel GPU is enabled. The only way to do that is an HDMI directly connected to your motherboard and you don't use the Nvidia card at all.

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Okay, thank everyone for all of your help and time - I have done some extensive testing and can report as follows:

 

Connecting the TV to the onboard (Intel) GPU, also results in a 23.973 refresh rate rather than 23.976, so no advantage in doing that, just a disadvantage in using a weaker GPU.

 

My mistake, EVR+ does play back SD TV files at full screen, but not very well (see below).

 

Changing the Hardware Accelaration Mode in the ET settings, has little or no effect on the load on the Nvidia GPU, so I have left it on auto.

 

MadVR

Plays 23.976 fps HD mkv files at 50% GPU load

Plays SD TV file at 75% GPU load

Plays HD TV files - maxes out GPU load so gets jerky

 

EVR

Plays 23.976 fps HD mkv files at 35% GPU load

Plays SD TV files at 50% GPU load (but with black borders all around) 

Plays HD TV files at 65% GPU load

 

EVR+

Plays 23.976 fps HD mkv files at 40% GPU load

Plays SD TV files full screen at 70% GPU load, but gives the odd GPU load 'spike' which causes jerkiness

Plays HD TV files at 70% GPU load, but with weird load spikes as with SD TV, so gets jerky.

 

Whether I use MadVR / EVR / EVR+ - I cannot see a difference in video quality.

 

I consulted the internet  ;)  and seemed to find some hits that suggested a 23.973 refresh rate playing back 23.976 fps video files would give dropped frames approx every 6 minutes. I guess this is what I am seeing, sometimes. I don't know how to address that, I tried reclock but that caused audio and video sync issues, which is worse than just living with the dropped frames.

 

I may as well stick to EVR for everything, as that puts less load on the GPU, although temporarily I will have to use MadVR for SD TV, because of the black border issue.

Edited by Guest
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puithove

@@lisag - so if madVR is maxing out the GPU, that just means that you haven't adjusted the scaling & processing that it's using to be suitable for what your GPU can handle.  If you are still interested in using it, you have options.  You probably just have to back off on the heavy processing til you find something that your GPU can keep up with.  Even if you drop back to using DXVA2 algorithms instead of madVRs algorithms.

 

If you bring up the madVR OSD (Ctrl-J) you'll have a wealth of info to tell you exactly what's going on and why/when you have the GPU falling behind.

 

Take a look at JDiesel's HOW-TO:  https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/30199-et-setup-guide-with-madvr-and-bitstreaming-hd-audio/

 

Warner306 has also done a very helpful HOW-TO on madVR - it's focused on using it with Kodi, but the parts about how to adjust madVR settings definitely still applies:  http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

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Thanks, I am aware of that, but I would prefer to just use EVR. I have tried MadVR many times before, even on my gaming machine with a powerful processor and graphics card, I was very underwhelmed with the results on my 55inch TV. All just looks the same.. I suppose it depends on your display device and source material.

 

Unless... MadVR can deal with the dropped frames with Nvidia refresh rate at 23.973 and video files at 23.976?

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stettler
puithove, on 05 Oct 2016 - 2:20 PM, said:

@@lisag - so if madVR is maxing out the GPU, that just means that you haven't adjusted the scaling & processing that it's using to be suitable for what your GPU can handle.  If you are still interested in using it, you have options.  You probably just have to back off on the heavy processing til you find something that your GPU can keep up with.  Even if you drop back to using DXVA2 algorithms instead of madVRs algorithms.

 

He already tried with very low resources settings lil^ke bilinear upscaling or DXVA. The setting I listed work fine with an embeded Intel HD Graphic 3000. There is no way it should max the gpu of a dedicated Nvidia card.

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UPDATE: Have discovered that my Nvidia graphics card is set to output 12 bit colour, other option is 8 bit, I wonder if that would put more strain on MadVR? Unfortunately my internet connection has gone down so I can't use ET at all presently  :(  I'll test out this theory when it's back up.

 

Meanwhile, @@Luke Did you get the sample file okay? If so, I can delete from dropbox as I am a bit short on space.

 

Thanks!

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UPDATE: Have discovered that my Nvidia graphics card is set to output 12 bit colour, other option is 8 bit, I wonder if that would put more strain on MadVR? Unfortunately my internet connection has gone down so I can't use ET at all presently  :(  I'll test out this theory when it's back up.

 

Meanwhile, @@Luke Did you get the sample file okay? If so, I can delete from dropbox as I am a bit short on space.

 

Thanks!

 

Please leave it for now. I passed the link along to babgvant to get his opinion. thanks.

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Further to my friendly bump, I have another issue to report, so thought I would add it here as is related....

 

I am now finding that HD TV recordings are looking a bit odd in Emby Theatre, there is noticeable 'ghosting' on moving objects, this is with EVR. If I try EVR+ and MadVR, it goes very jerky, so I presume it is too resource hungry for my system. I don't know what has changed, I tried uninstalling and re-installing ET, but it didn't change anything.

 

I have switched back to MediaPortal for now, the same file plays fine there, no ghosting.

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stettler

One more setting that help with low resources with MadVr:

Rendering -> Dithering : none

 

Also, on an Intel nuc running windows 10, I noticed that Windows Defender was causing problems. Try to turn it off (but it will restart automatically after reboot if you don't disable it in the registery)

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Thanks @@stettler - I just tried those two things, and unfortunately it didn't help.

 

I have just noticed though that when I open Emby Theatre, the GPU load (as reported by GPU-Z) goes from 0% to 45%, and stays there.

So just having ET open, before I even playback any video - GPU load is at 45%, that can't help, is that right?

 

lisa

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This is really testing my patience (and sucking my time). I have tried ET with various settings on a few different machines in the house. EVR+ definitely looks the best to me, even better than MadVR (default settings). So ideally, I would love to use ET with EVR+ for all of my media as it plays back both SD and HD recorded TV files (.ts) very well, and it would just be a set it and leave situation.

 

However, the Nvidia GT 730 cannot handle it - it maxes out at 100%.

 

On other machines in the house I have a Nvidia GTX 960 which handles it easily, and an onboard Intel HD 4600 which also manages it okay. So if I were to upgrade the Nvidia GT730 to another card - which one would I need? Or rather, what is the minimum I can get away with - that will do HDMI audio out to my AVR (or DVI audio) plus HDMI to my TV and manage to playback EVR+ without maxing out the GPU load..?

 

Or is there something else I can do to get EVR+ working on this machine with the current hardware?

 

Thanks!

 

lisa

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I have ordered a GTX 750 ti. It is returnable if no good. It has a fan though which is not ideal for a lounge PC, hopefully it doesn't get too loud.

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stettler

Thanks @@stettler

I have just noticed though that when I open Emby Theatre, the GPU load (as reported by GPU-Z) goes from 0% to 45%, and stays there.

So just having ET open, before I even playback any video - GPU load is at 45%, that can't help, is that right?

 

 

 

That's weird. I don't have anything like that. Do you have something else running in background?

Also make sure you have the latest drivers and firmware.

 

 

 

On other machines in the house I have a Nvidia GTX 960 which handles it easily, and an onboard Intel HD 4600 which also manages it okay. So if I were to upgrade the Nvidia GT730 to another card - which one would I need? Or rather, what is the minimum I can get away with - that will do HDMI audio out to my AVR (or DVI audio) plus HDMI to my TV and manage to playback EVR+ without maxing out the GPU load..?

 

 

You could already make a test by removing the nvidia card and using only the integrated intel gpu with the settings I posted. But really, the GT730 should be powerful enough without any question so there must be another problem.

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Thanks @@stettler. It is really odd. I have other HTPC's in the house that manage EVR+ okay, with much lower spec hardware.

 

This room is a bit of an odd set up though, I am using the onboard VGA out to power a small Dell monitor that runs Frontview. I then have to split the audio and video out of my graphics card due to sync issues. So, I have DVI out going to HDMI in of the AVR for audio only, then HDMI out of graphics card going to HDMI in of the television.

 

The graphics card drivers see the Sony AVR as an extra monitor, so maybe that is putting additional load on the GPU? 

 

I have tried going from DVI out of the motherboard into HDMI in of the TV, and it also maxed out the GPU load.

 

I'll give this GTX 750 ti card a try that I have just ordered and if that works and isn't too loud, I'll be happy.

 

Strangely though, if I switch to using MediaPortal 1 - everything works okay. But I want to use Emby!

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