overClocked! 63 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 I'm pretty sure they will lose zero customers. Sorry, but people that aren't paying aren't customers. That doesn't make them valuable, doesn't make them not part of the user community, and is not intended to say they are bad in any way...but they aren't customers. Customers buy things. @@Luke several of the other clients that are free with premiere can also be purchased independently for users that want that client but don't use premiere. The Android TV app for example is free with premiere or you can pay a few bucks for just that client. Perhaps that model could be adopted here. Perhaps. I think that most software companies have a "flagship" application that becomes the bread and butter of the company that keeps them in operation. The fact that Emby offers a lifetime pay-once-and-sleep-easy solution is an incredible testament to their commitment to reward those that support their efforts. The monthly or annually recurring options are just that. Options. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. All the older apps are still quite functional and many are free of charge, including Emby Theater. It's an open source, ADD FREE product. Should anyone want to keep new development free, they are welcome to take the code, improve upon it, and create their own free client solution if they wish. I guarantee that when they see the incredible amount of time and effort that it takes to keep it running, keep up with the competition, and keep the user base happy, they may change their attitude about charging an affordable fee for their countless hours of hard work. I checked the website and it's been clearly communicated that the new product will be available to supporters only. I do agree that a "try before you buy" period should be introduced. I think that's fair. Luke has shown an incredible amount of restraint and grace dealing with the hostility in this thread. I salute you, sir. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximus1 2 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 the last year was filled with many bugs in your apps and i don´t see light on the end of the tunnel. a basic feature like playing my media will cost money? it is the same like google let´s you type your searches but if you want to see results you have to pay. Your software is not selfhealing and your logs are a mess. i´m not a programmer anymore and often i have no idea what your logs try to tell me. in short... your logs are not userfriendly. theater very often can not handle requests. the windows server very often hangs while trying to actualize the media database. auto-organize needs at 80% userinput to work.... maybe. at the end of a media the file isn´t closed and lav, fddshow, etc. are not closed. you want money? do a better job. i don´t pay 100 bucks for a software filled with bugs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathsquirrel 741 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 When Emby accepted "donations" for support they weren't customers. The minute it became a premier service that is required in order to get certain products, they're customers, by definition and on that we're going to have to agree to disagree if you don't agree with that statement. I'm afraid I'm far too old and laid back to argue with anyone over the internet, there's far more important things to worry about in life I also stated very clearly "future customers" It's a very fair point regarding donations. My point boils down to looking at what they really sell. They sell premiere licenses. If that's what makes them money that's where their attention will naturally wander. I don't agree it has a cost with future customers though. The thing they sell just got more valuable without increasing in cost. That's not bad for sales, it's good for sales. I spent a decade in software sales and I don't recall ever getting yelled at for throwing in more stuff at the same cost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathsquirrel 741 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 the last year was filled with many bugs in your apps and i don´t see light on the end of the tunnel. a basic feature like playing my media will cost money? it is the same like google let´s you type your searches but if you want to see results you have to pay. Your software is not selfhealing and your logs are a mess. i´m not a programmer anymore and often i have no idea what your logs try to tell me. in short... your logs are not userfriendly. theater very often can not handle requests. the windows server very often hangs while trying to actualize the media database. auto-organize needs at 80% userinput to work.... maybe. at the end of a media the file isn´t closed and lav, fddshow, etc. are not closed. you want money? do a better job. i don´t pay 100 bucks for a software filled with bugs. If you're running into problems you might consider posting them. At least under this user account it doesn't look like you're spending a lot of the last year posting problem reports and asking for help. Most things can be fixed through talking to folks on this forum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximus1 2 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 why should i repost probems others had too? i was very often here without logging in and searched for my problem. the problems i had and have are posted. so i save my time and post no topics with problems others already have written. the point is . there are to much bugs and errors. if others like to pay for an unfinihed bussines it is ok, but i don´t do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asrequested Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 I'm more than happy to pay for premium. I've already paid for a year, and pretty soon I'll be buying the lifetime membership. $99 for that is great! I think Luke and the team have more than earned it. In my opinion, if you aren't paying, you can't complain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathsquirrel 741 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 why should i repost probems others had too? i was very often here without logging in and searched for my problem. the problems i had and have are posted. so i save my time and post no topics with problems others already have written. the point is . there are to much bugs and errors. if others like to pay for an unfinihed bussines it is ok, but i don´t do. Well your approach appears not to be working. Adding to a thread may help develiopment identify the issue or, if they already know the root issue, to help them prioritize the fix. It certainly can't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overClocked! 63 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 the point is . there are to much bugs and errors. if others like to pay for an unfinihed bussines it is ok, but i don´t do. Purchasing Emby Premier gets you a whole lot more than just Emby Theater. https://emby.media/premiere/ You aren't paying for Theater. You are paying to get a boatload of other stuff for your server installation and all of your clients, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asrequested Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Maybe one option is to allow paying for Theater on its own? Some people may only use an HTPC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximus1 2 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Purchasing Emby Premier gets you a whole lot more than just Emby Theater. https://emby.media/premiere/ You aren't paying for Theater. You are paying to get a boatload of other stuff for your server installation and all of your clients, too. none of the shown features are intresting to me. i need metadata in my language and a smooth playback in the livingroom, bedroom and the childs room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37008 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 none of the shown features are intresting to me. i need metadata in my language and a smooth playback in the livingroom, bedroom and the childs room. Hi, welcome. We work very hard to help people when they have issues. If you have an issue and you want to create a topic, I will do my best to resolve it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazik 44 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Maybe one option is to allow paying for Theater on its own? Some people may only use an HTPC. I agree with this. I have no interest in the "features" and plugins offered via premiere, if the price hadn't been so high I'd have "purchased" it ages ago, but the price is too high for something I don't want. I was considering buying a lifetime license purely on the fact that my family and I use it literally daily (my media setup would likely leave even a lot of you here with an open mouth). The point is, a few years ago when I was looking for the right media server software, I was looking for something that worked, that was rather easy to use in terms of formatting/moving drives/etc, and something I could rely on. My other options at the time where Plex and XMBC which in their own rights are good, but they aren't what I was looking for. I will assume everyone here had a similar "coming of mind" when they chose to use MediaBrowser. Now with that being said. I completely understand charging for premium features, that's fine. But don't release a new product and hide the fact you have to pay for it to use it (in my case). I understand that was likely an accident, but still, it's not something easily forgiven by most. Being a developer myself and working in a similar way, I highly suggest you keep it the same as the older version. Give the extra features to premiere but don't dissallow playback, you are almost asking for someone to find a way to crack it, which I'm sure if you keep it that way, someone will (I might even help). Once that happens, you won't see any income at all. That or allow a cheaper "license" for just playback without the extra fluffy plugins/etc. In the end, I'm still happy with Emby, it's done well by me for years now, almost 30TB of data goes through my install and it's yet to have any major issues. But this pay-to-use bullshittery isn't good. Luke has some decisions to make regarding this, and nobody should really be getting onto him. It's my belief it was an honest oversight in the rush to get things going. The only other complaint I'd ever have about Emby Theatre is that SHIFT+8 is the only way to turn on subtitles (or was, dunno, can't USE THE NEW VERSION). Edited January 17, 2016 by akensai 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdiesel 1113 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Lots of whining on this thread. In order for the Emby ecosystem to become better they must attract and retain good developers to work on the project. This is especially true for the behind the scenes issues and bugs that are not glamorous to work on. In order to provide a good experience for both paying and non-paying users some monetary incentive must be given to the Emby Team. This is done through the Emby Premiere memberships and in order to sell the Premiere memberships they must offer some inventive for people to purchase it, in this case early access to a beta program. If you want the latest and greatest you need to pay, a very reasonable amount in this case. Not everything can be free and threatening to not pay for something you haven't payed for to begin with is a pretty empty threat. Meanwhile there are many happy Emby Premiere users who will continue to enjoy the Emby products. Edited January 17, 2016 by Jdiesel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37008 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Yes the roll-out was a bit of a rush, there's no denying that, it could have been better. I think going forward for people still on the old app who haven't seen the notification yet, the experience will be much better because it tells them that the upgrade will overwrite the old app, that it requires emby premiere, and where to get the old app in the even they would prefer to stay with that, and it mentions that the old app will remain free forever. For the feature set that it has, the old app is perfectly usable so there is really nothing wrong with continuing to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djonnie 14 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) I'm using Emby for a year now and it works fine. And also how the devs listen to the public and the direction the "suite" grows in is great. Except for Theater on my HTPC which has a lot of rough edges (like "Processing the request" errors), no localization and (GUI wise) very limited music play-back. But I invested in hardware and spent several hours ffmpeg'ing my movies to the correct format(s), since I believed one day the new MB Theater would be coming. I F5'ed the website 12 times a day to see if there was any news about the MB Theater update. But after waiting sooo long that it is available now I'm as disappointed as some other people in this thread that I can't use it without having Premier. Of COURSE the devs are free to ask what they want for their products. And they did a very nice job to deliver this high quality software. And I'm willing to pay for the software, like I did for some mobile apps, but not $99 for the lifetime membership since I don't need all the Premier bells and whistles, but only the MB Theater app. I won't stop using Emby, but I will recode my files to MP4 with H264 and AAC stereo and switch to the Web Client. Introducing a MB Theater "license" would bring me back to MB Theater. Or a temporary discount on the lifetime Premier membership would be a nice touch. Just a suggestion. But I love your products and your support. Thank you for that. Keep up the good work. Edited January 17, 2016 by djonnie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James 31 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) All I can say is wow. Suggesting an Emby Theater only license is a valid suggestion. Hinting that if the devs dont agree with your suggestion or make basic playback completely free you may help crack their product is in my opinion completely disrespectful both to the devs and paying supporters. Keep in mind the devs have made available the existing Emby Theatre free of charge. Edited January 17, 2016 by James 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37008 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 And yes a Theater-only unlock is something we may consider as well, like the other apps have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xnappo 1593 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I won't stop using Emby, but I will recode my files to MP4 with H264 and AAC stereo and switch to the Web Client. Yeash - that is a lot of work and quality loss. Have you tried Emby for Kodi? Kodi takes a bit of time to set up - but with Titan and Eunique skins, it looks a lot like Theater. Theater is of course more efficient at working with the server, but if you are looking for a free solution, Emby for Kodi is quite good once you get past the learning curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epayson85 72 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Dear god you people are pathetic... Complaining about $40 a year or $100 for a life time... heck $4 a month! Do you mean to tell me people that have dedicated machines that they invest in to house all of their media can't afford that? HAHAHAHA clearly the majority of the people that are on here are pirates and don't like paying for anything. These are hard working people that are making this software. How in the world do they live if they aren't making any money? You really expect them to make it for free? How much do you think it costs to host this website? to host your emby connect?? Go use freaking Kodi if you want something for free. You will see me bitching all over this site about things not working and things I don't like. The last thing I complain about is the price. I am just paying the $4 a month for now and if they ever get everything right then I will buy the lifetime subscription. If they don't I will move on. You can't tell you that you can't afford $4 a month! Give up your morning coffee two times a month... boom you can afford it. For those of you saying you will crack the software... Luke remember this post. If anyone cracks your software come talk to me. I will sponser / fund you to develop the necessary software to ensure the software has to connect to your servers in order to function properly. The funny thing is though... anyone that threatens to crack software like this has 0 skill to do so. Further no legitimate group would ever crack a piece of software made by independent developers like this. No pirate group wants to put people out of business. Shame on these cheap pathetic losers. Want everything handed to you? Go talk to Bernie Sanders and Obama, they will help you out. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berrmich 5 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Luke, I, also, thought I remember you saying it would be free. Whether you did or not is probably not too relevant because you certainly made everyone believe it would be. That is why people are angry with you. It "seems" underhanded (Although you weren't really intending to). How many times were people told that they had no right to complain about the delays since the software is free? You let everyone believe it. I think it is perfectly reasonable to charge for your work. $99 for a lifetime license sounds like a great deal to me. Unfortunately you have lost the trust of many people. Is it really a lifetime license? How do we know that you will not charge again for the next significant update. You could certainly say that I still have a lifetime license to the old version and still make me pay for the next one. How about a "new" feature. As technology changes and updates are needed are you going to call them new features that require payment? This is where trust is important. At this point you do not a fully functioning product. You have several key features that are not present as I understand it. No remote control? No external players? I will be happy to purchase your software when at least all key parts are available. It would be nice to have some written assurance as to what the lifetime license actually covers. I would rather purchase the that license. Sorry if this seems negative. I do use emby server and WMC client. I love the software. I've been using it free for years. I just feel that if you had been upfront about the cost from the beginning you would not have the issues you are having now. Thanks, Mike 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czorrilla 1 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Dear god you people are pathetic... Complaining about $40 a year or $100 for a life time... heck $4 a month! Do you mean to tell me people that have dedicated machines that they invest in to house all of their media can't afford that? HAHAHAHA clearly the majority of the people that are on here are pirates and don't like paying for anything. These are hard working people that are making this software. How in the world do they live if they aren't making any money? You really expect them to make it for free? How much do you think it costs to host this website? to host your emby connect?? Go use freaking Kodi if you want something for free. You will see me bitching all over this site about things not working and things I don't like. The last thing I complain about is the price. I am just paying the $4 a month for now and if they ever get everything right then I will buy the lifetime subscription. If they don't I will move on. You can't tell you that you can't afford $4 a month! Give up your morning coffee two times a month... boom you can afford it. For those of you saying you will crack the software... Luke remember this post. If anyone cracks your software come talk to me. I will sponser / fund you to develop the necessary software to ensure the software has to connect to your servers in order to function properly. The funny thing is though... anyone that threatens to crack software like this has 0 skill to do so. Further no legitimate group would ever crack a piece of software made by independent developers like this. No pirate group wants to put people out of business. Shame on these cheap pathetic losers. Want everything handed to you? Go talk to Bernie Sanders and Obama, they will help you out. Stop your B.S. right there. I feel cheated by this team, but I do understand they need to make a living. The way they have done this change is foxy at best. Theirs is no a subscription based model, is an application that I would buy, as simple as that. Sell me the software for something like 20 and that is all. I want the new version? ok, I will pay 20 again next year, but sell me a finished and polished product. What the Emby team has done is irresponsible. Edited January 17, 2016 by czorrilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdiesel 1113 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Luke, I, also, thought I remember you saying it would be free. Whether you did or not is probably not too relevant because you certainly made everyone believe it would be. That is why people are angry with you. It "seems" underhanded (Although you weren't really intending to). How many times were people told that they had no right to complain about the delays since the software is free? You let everyone believe it. I think it is perfectly reasonable to charge for your work. $99 for a lifetime license sounds like a great deal to me. Unfortunately you have lost the trust of many people. Is it really a lifetime license? How do we know that you will not charge again for the next significant update. You could certainly say that I still have a lifetime license to the old version and still make me pay for the next one. How about a "new" feature. As technology changes and updates are needed are you going to call them new features that require payment? This is where trust is important. At this point you do not a fully functioning product. You have several key features that are not present as I understand it. No remote control? No external players? I will be happy to purchase your software when at least all key parts are available. It would be nice to have some written assurance as to what the lifetime license actually covers. I would rather purchase the that license. Sorry if this seems negative. I do use emby server and WMC client. I love the software. I've been using it free for years. I just feel that if you had been upfront about the cost from the beginning you would not have the issues you are having now. Thanks, Mike I think this is exactly why there is no option to purchase only ET like you can currently do with the mobile apps. The software is still in beta. Could you imagine what people would be saying if they have paid for a beta program? That's why you likely can't purchase ET on its own right now. What's wrong with rewarding supporters with early access to a beta? Wait until ET is ready and then purchase it if you aren't ready to put down the cash now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overClocked! 63 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Luke, I, also, thought I remember you saying it would be free. Whether you did or not is probably not too relevant because you certainly made everyone believe it would be. Translation: You assumed it would be free. I remember reading that the finished product would probably have some sort of cost associated with it or made available to subscribers only. But no decision had been made at that time, so there was no real determination made at that point. I have been looking for those discussions, too. And I have not seen one instance of any Emby team member saying the new rebuilt app from the ground up would be given away for free of charge once released. It certainly wasn't advertised on the public webpage. What makes anyone think that informal discussions in support forums equate to contractual agreements that entitle them to anything. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidman 589 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I think the fact that people having issues with the old free version have been hearing for a year to wait and try the new rewrite only to find out only when it was finally available you couldn't try it out unless you pay... That would certainly piss me off so I can see the annoyance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overClocked! 63 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Bah. Darned Tapatalk. Just ignore this. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited January 18, 2016 by overClocked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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