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Phoenix

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Phoenix

Hi, I am new here and have a few questions.  I hope this into and my questions don't get me in trouble around here (crossing any taboo lines), but here goes.

 

I am just your basic hard headed outspoken old guy who among many other things, enjoys watching some TV and Movies.  I am retired (disabled) military and live on a fixed lower end income.  I don't like spending money on things I don't (or shouldn't) need, but will spend it (carefully) on what is needed.  I am not a software guru (I know just enough to be dangerous), but I am a serious hardware guy (Electronic Engineering tech).  I do not enjoy just trying everything out under the sun to find solutions or changing everything all the time.  You could say I get pretty stuck in my ways.  Phoenix was also my military callsign and trust me, I earned it (for good or bad is debatable).

 

Towards the ends of enjoying TV and Movies, I have a number of Snap Server NAS and expansion units (somewhere upwards of 48 terabytes raw storage space, most of which was purchased prior to being retired), and here it comes, a Plex media server.  Used for only LAN access, via Windows Computer(s), ROKU, and Samsung Smart TV (Smart Hub).

 

I could go on and on, and I am sure some think I already have, but that is enough for now for a foundation.  So here is the explanation and the first main question...

 

I like(d) Plex, it did all the things I needed it to do, but it has some serious flaws.

 

1. Originally using an older version of FFmpg, did not support H.265 (none of my library is H.265, but it would be nice)

2. Now has switched to a newer version of FFmpg, but just had to modify it themselves and it now has issues with some MKV (My entire library is H.264 MKV).

3. And here is the biggest one, their developers and staff have very serious god complexes (some of the worst I have seen, and that is saying something).  They are often very hostile towards their own community, won't listen to anything unless it was already on their agenda.  My observations and experiences show that the higher up that food chain you go, the worse they get.  Serious, serious A-Holes...

 

I very much would like to switch away from Plex, but nothing I found so far out there does as well as it does (barring the newer version crapping on MKV).  Most of the alternatives are just DLNA and very limited in scope etc.  PlayOn is decent as far as I can tell, but it is very much tailored towards Internet media rather than local media.  XBMC or whatever they are calling it now is nice, but these days, at least to me, seems like far more bells and whistles than is needed and only leads to serious complexity making it not user friendly at all and riddled with constant change and bugs (JMO).  So until now, I have been pretty much stuck....  Then I saw Media Browser (or Emby, or whatever it is called, I am not sure).  I freely admit I have not spent a ton of time looking at it, nor have I installed and used it yet (I hate just doing that kind of stuff willy nilly).  But, from what I can see, it looks very promising.  So the first real question is;

 

Am I in the right place?  Is this the true Plex replacement I and other are looking for?  Something with ALL the functionality Plex had, without all the god complexes and hassles?  That and sticking with media standards (like FFmpg as an example) to maintain proper compatibility with standard media.?

 

Please no fanboy type answers.  Just straight up truth, I can handle it...  And please fell free to elaborate in detail.  This thread will be my source of making what for me could be a major changeover.  It might also help someone else along the way....

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Deathsquirrel

Very likely yes.  Plex is probably the most similar application out there in terms of basic design and concept to Emby.  Both are media servers with a web management tool that play back digital audio/video files to a variety of client applications.

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Macburp

Nice intro. You said just enough.

 

As a long time MB user, I can say there are not many god complexes to be found around here. The community is constructive and helpful, and often creative in solving problems. 

 

We are called Emby now (but heck, what's in a name).

 

You will need a computer to run the Emby server. Some folk are working on server versions that run on a NAS, but generally a NAS won't have the processor power to run the Emby server - its a storage device after all. A windows PC with reasonable specs will run the server fine, and the server could even be one of your htpcs.

 

I infer from your post that you'd want to direct play your media wherever possible. Emby Classic (for WMC), Emby Theatre (for Windows machines without WMC) and Kodi with the Emby plug-in can do that. WMC has issues playing mkvs, so take a look at Emby Theatre and Kodi as possible clients for your windows machines. I personally am not a Kodi fan either, but go to the Kodi forum here and see what the guys are doing with it, I'm sure you'll find it interesting. Emby Theatre has some issues and is about to get a major overhaul, but there are many happy users of that client.

 

The Emby client for the Roku is one of the most solid here. I believe your mkvs would be transcoded on the Roku (not sure, I don't use mkv), but this works well if your server pc has a reasonable processor. There is also a client for Samsung TVs (D-Series or above) which is a work in progress.

 

Not a server expert, but I can't see that your MKVs will be an issue for Emby server at all.

 

Why not give Emby a try?

Edited by Macburp
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z0mbi

I'm a new convert myself, coming from using XBMC on my HTPC as a media browser front end for my 32TB file server for years, and finally deciding that I wanted a better 'all in one' solution. I tried Plex and was not satisfied with its functionality. I was used to things working a certain way and Plex was too alien. So here I am, about three/four weeks into having completely switched over to Emby, and I couldn't be happier. I'm still using XBMC on my HTPC with an Emby enabled skin... but I now can serve media to any TV and device in my house as easy as pie... something I never even considered trying to do until I found Emby. I think you should be satisfied with it.

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Phoenix

Thank you for your early replies... Initial response seem like I am in the right place, so I will go into more detail. But first, replies to those who already responded.

 

Deathsquirrel, that was my initial impression when I first found this site. Thank you for the confirmation, it was exactly what I was hoping to hear.

 

z0mbi, I had to laugh. What you had not considered before, is my whole goal.

 

Macburp, where to start. I sure hope you are right about the no god complexes.

 

My experiences on the Plex forum were far far far from hospitable. It started when they first did a beta version for FreeBSD, which I don't even use. One of “them” had made a comment to someone asking for a little help that was let's just say, a little snotty, and in short making an effort to tell them how insignificant he/they are (yes, this was from a staff member, Plex ninja). I came in with a reply simply saying that FreeBSD is no small thing since two very prominent NAS software (FreeNAS and NAS4Free) are on FreeBSD and that is a large community and the exact type to be using Plex. I got told in no certain terms I was an idiot and to shut up (but not in those words). It took about an instant for the Plex sheriff to show up also and me get ganged up on. I told them my opinion, did not take their crap, but did in fact refrain from any name calling, threats, or the other things generally not acceptable on a decent forum. For my efforts, I was given 4 strikes (for the same supposed offense) and banned from posting for a month. Also, a new title (that is unchangeable by the user) of “Troll” was added to my profile (which remains to this day). Honest, I did nothing wrong there, so do not worry about me.

 

The long and the short is, this is how things work with Plex. If something has a problem or someone doesn't like something, they are an idiot. If you request a change, it will fall into 2 categories. 1) It is already something they are working on, be patient, or 2) It is a stupid idea and you are a moron for requesting it. If something is broken, it must be you.... Now I am not talking about me. I post very very little there. But all one has to do is spend enough time there and read and you will see the pattern. Problem is, they almost have a monopoly. I say almost because until now, I had not even heard of Emby. In any case, if I wanted god complexes, I would stick with plex, but I can't bail on Plex soon enough when a decent alternative is found (I sure hope that this is that alternative). A side note, I can assure you, I am not the only one who feels that way about Plex and their staff. And, I can assure you, they will never see a dime of my hard fought for money.

 

Moving on (sorry, I get wound up), rather than address each item you mentioned, I will just tell you what I got and what I want to do with it. The one item I should address was when you said, I should just give it a try. I might, but I do need to say up front, I am not one who enjoys just trying things out. That is how one ends up with screwed up systems and system re installs. Something I do not enjoy.

 

As I said previously, I have Snap Servers for the media. I have considered getting an upper end Synology NAS that has enough cpu to transcode and since some media servers will run on it, just so I could eliminate the need for a dedicated server, but since my NAS units are commercial grade and rock solid, I just don't think it is worth it (plus it would be expensive as $%^&). I will continue to use a dedicated media server (currently running on Plex) and just map the NAS shares as drives on the media server. I suppose I could use iSCSI, but I don't really see a reason why.

 

I have a dedicated computer to use as a media server. It is an Asus Sabertooth MB, Intel i5-2500T quad CPU, 4 GB DDR2 memory, with an SSD and single HD for local storage, connected via Gb LAN, and running on Windows XP Pro. Note: Please, do not tell me how I should run linux or this or that. I have no need nor desire to learn linux at this point in my life. And I see no reason why something as simple as a dedicated media server should require the newest or greatest OS (that aint cheap either).

 

For devices, that is easy. Two ROKU 2, a laptop, and a Samsung Smart TV. The media gets viewed on the laptop occasionally, but not a lot. The Samsung TV in the family room if I remember correctly is a C version, but it has a Plex app, so I could be wrong. But 90% of the viewing is done via the ROKUs, so that is the real key. Having the Samsung app and an app for Windows PC (the laptop) is just a bonus. The requirement is the ROKU. It needs a good rock solid app, at least as good as the Plex ROKU app.

 

The media (and plenty of it). 98% of the media is HD 720p/1080p H.264 MKV media. Mostly DTS (65%), but some AC3 and AAC in the mix also. I am not an expert on the hows and whats, but my ROKU Plex app and Plex media Server are set for direct play with transcode falback. I get nice crisp playback.

 

Now back to where we started.

 

I know most media server software do other things, and that's cool, but my needs are simple. I don't need a lot of bells and whistles to do this or that on the internet, or stream to my buddies across the globe, or stream from internet sources. If the media server just happens to have all that, great, whatever. But I need to run the media server on a dedicated machine, sourcing from my local media on NAS and stream that local media to the ROKUs, Samsung Smart TV, and laptop. It also needs to take that local media and retrieve information from the TVDB and MovieDB places for media data, like plex does.

 

I like the Plex Roku app plenty. The Samsung and Windows app look a lot better, but my understanding is it is the limitations of the ROKU, but with those guys, who knows.

 

I also like the Plex Media server just fine as well as I like the Web App for controlling it.

 

So if Plex is so great, then why change? I am glad you asked....

 

  1. I cannot stand their god complexes for support. Drives me nuts....

  2. I do not trust the people running Plex, simple as that.

  3. They push updates without permission. I absolutely loathe any software that will update without your permission. Automatic updates are great, but you should still have a choice.

  4. They recently pushed a change to the web app that nags about updates. Problem is, I have the latest update available for Win XP (newer versions won't install on XP). And you can't turn it off without a newer version, so I get nagged constantly to update. Gotta love those forced pushed updates (in this case, to the web app).

  5. I considered moving to Win 7 (grrrr grumble grumble), but I have heard that in the newer versions of Plex, they are now using an in-house modified version of FFmpg that has serious issues with MKV files, lots of complaints but little concern (what did I say all my media was). So what would be the point.

  6. It would be nice to be able to start using HD 720p/1080p H.265 MKV also. But not required.

 

I guess what I am trying to say, in a very very long winded way is (in summary), I need a media server that will; (Please please do not be offended that I keep saying Plex, that is not my intent)

 

  1. Run on a dedicated machine and source from local media on an NAS, like Plex.

  2. Be 100% compatible with HD 720p/1080p H.264 MKV files with DTS, or AC3, or AAC audio.

  3. A bonus would be HD 720p/1080p H.265 MKV files.

  4. Get data (metadata?) on that media from the internet (TVDB etc), like Plex.

  5. Be controllable from a Web App, like Plex.

  6. Have an app for the ROKU (required) as good as Plex or better.

  7. Have an app for the Samsung TV (not required, but nice) as good as Plex or better.

  8. Have an app for a windows PC/Laptop (almost required, but not) as good as Plex or better.

  9. Stream that media to the above devices and have control similar to Plex (pause, play FF, RW, etc).

  10. NOT force updates without permission. EVER!

  11. Not have the software nag me about anything.

  12. Have some support that does not require blood sacrifices or groveling at their feet.

  13. While not required, it would nice if it ran on XP Pro.

 

Am I still in the right place? Is this finally the software for me? And just as importantly, have I annoyed the crap out of you all yet? LOL Sorry, but it is better to just give all the information people will ask for and set the limitations up front, rather than go back and forth over a 100 messages.

 

I am sorry I was so long winded and I hope you did not fall asleep reading it. I just want to know what I would be getting into before doing anything. Plex left a bad taste in my mouth for that.

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Phoenix

As a side note:

 

If I might make a suggestion here already...  It might be helpful to have some screen shots of the web app and on some of the devices for people to see here on the web site.

 

That, and I don't know how, but the word needs to get out.  I had never heard of Emby before a day or two ago and just got lucky I stumbled in here.

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Macburp

I'd say the answer to your questions is yes. You should give Emby a try.

 

Some thoughts -

- Emby innovates, and so updates a fair amount. You have the choice of 'official'. 'beta' and 'dev' status for the server and clients. I have my server set to official, and updates take place in the night usually and all remains rock solid. You can set updates to manual. But you would need to update.

- XP Pro? Really? How are you able to keep that secure, now that MS do not support? I'm not aware of anyone running an Emby server on XP, but have a look on the server forum and see.

 

Have a look in the 'Promoting Mediabrowser' thread on here for effort to promote Emby - limited to posting on internet forums right now I think.

 

I sense you want to go 'all-in' on a solution rather than test. My instincts would say that is not a good idea, but maybe I can offer a parallel. When I upgraded to Emby I had been running Mediabrowser v2 for some years, which was the same service with a very different architecture. It was made clear that the move to Emby was one-way - and I have never regretted it....

 

Last word, only you will know if its as good or better than Plex. I've seen many happy users here who left Plex for Emby, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating :)

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Phoenix

I'd say the answer to your questions is yes. You should give Emby a try.

 

Some thoughts -

- Emby innovates, and so updates a fair amount. You have the choice of 'official'. 'beta' and 'dev' status for the server and clients. I have my server set to official, and updates take place in the night usually and all remains rock solid. You can set updates to manual. But you would need to update.

- XP Pro? Really? How are you able to keep that secure, now that MS do not support? I'm not aware of anyone running an Emby server on XP, but have a look on the server forum and see.

 

Have a look in the 'Promoting Mediabrowser' thread on here for effort to promote Emby - limited to posting on internet forums right now I think.

 

I sense you want to go 'all-in' on a solution rather than test. My instincts would say that is not a good idea, but maybe I can offer a parallel. When I upgraded to Emby I had been running Mediabrowser v2 for some years, which was the same service with a very different architecture. It was made clear that the move to Emby was one-way - and I have never regretted it....

 

Last word, only you will know if its as good or better than Plex. I've seen many happy users here who left Plex for Emby, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating :)

 

Thank you.

 

Can I assume that "official" is translation for "stable", I hope?   :)

 

Yup, XP Pro.  By the time it got to SP3 it was very stable and reliable, so why not...  And it's cheap!  As for secure, well, it is a dedicated media server, used for nothing else.  The only time it touches the internet is when it is grabbing data from the TV or Movie databases via the Plex scripts, so...  As for being scanned, most modern routers will prevent most of that.  Anything beyond that requires a hacker, who would get in no matter what you had or did...  Make sense?

 

If by "all-in" you mean it is all that I would be using for my media after using it a little while, then yes.  If you mean I would just install another media server and start using it exclusively without any testing and so forth, then no.  I am just feeling the waters on if it is worth installing and spending time on (time is valuable).  No sense doing that even if it is not what you are looking for in the first place...  Right?

 

Can EMBY be installed on the same system as Plex, also both running at the same time?  Meaning, do they coexist well?  This would only happen during the testing and getting used to phase.

 

As for those happy users who switched from Plex, I truly hope some of them pipe into this conversation and tell me their thoughts about it.

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Macburp

The only time I have had trouble with server stability is when I went to beta for a short period. My experience of official updates is that they are rock solid. I allow my server to be updated in the small hours automatically, and have never had an issue. I use beta updates for clients, and do get issues from time to time, but can usually fix easily.

 

@@Luke, any issues with running the server on XP?

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Yogi

I think the server only runs on Vista,windows 7 and 8 plus Winodws server 2008 and 2012,it is not compatible with XP

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We require .net 4.5 so, no I don't believe the server will run on XP.

 

I think we hit on most of your other requirements but you really need to be the judge of that.  And, if you discover things you don't like, please let us know about them because we are always working to evolve the product to be easy to use and easy to understand.

 

The one thing I think may be an issue for you is that we do favor automatic updates.  We do allow you to choose from three different levels of updates (Dev, Beta and Stable) so I would suggest you stay on the stable channel.  These are only released after several weeks of testing and come out much less often than the betas (stay away from Dev).

 

With a fast-evolving product like this with very few people trying to develop and support it, we simply need to have people running the latest version in order to have any hope of providing that support.

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Phoenix

Thank you all very much for you replies, it has been very helpful.

 

Now I really have to give this some thought.  Initially I was ready to jump in with both feet and give this a test run, but I freely admit there are a couple serious problems.

 

The first is the OS thing.  It's not that I won't upgrade the OS if it is really needed and the software is worth doing it for.  it is more about that it is currently on XP pro and in use daily with Plex, thus making testing the new software out at any length more difficult.  At some point I need to update it anywise, so...  But just doing it to test makes it more problematic...  Not a deal breaker, but a serious headache.

 

The second is more serious (to me).  Maybe I am just strange or something, or maybe all that military buried in me, I don't know.   But, forced updates is one of the primary reasons I am going to leave Plex and is a borderline deal breaker for me.  I agree that you need the community to test and be sure what is and is not.  However, I much prefer (require) being a willing guinea pig (test rat) than a forced one.  While I would most likely have auto updates on, it would still be my choice and I could change that choice either direction any time I wanted.  Having a willing choice is just something in my DNA I guess.  I had such high hopes for Media Browser, but this may be a deal breaker for me.  I really need to think on this one.  It' not about the updates.  It's about the principle.  Can you imagine the public outcry if M$ had windows doing forced updates?

 

 

As a side note, you just reminded me of one of the other things that jerks my chain about Plex.  No I am not saying you guys do this, I am just saying it popped in my head while reading your comment.  Plex is constantly changing this or that.  That in itself is not a bad thing.  Problem is, they move on to the next "thing" before getting the last "thing" working 100% and stable.  This has been commented on a zillion times on their forum.  You should already know what their response to that is.  How about getting "this" to work right before putting something else on the pile please.

 

Like I said, thank you all for your time.  I think you answered my questions and now I just need to make a decision I guess....

 

There is one last thing, kind of a puzzle I noticed.  I went into the ROKU channel store to look at the app and noticed there are 2 different apps for Media Browser. Neither says beta or anything like that, but one is like a year newer than the other (v1.4 and v1.8).  Why the two different apps?  There seems to be no description difference between them other than version number.

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Updates can be disabled so they are not completely forced, they just happen to be on by default to make things easier for everyone involved. Welcome :)

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Phoenix

Updates can be disabled so they are not completely forced, they just happen to be on by default to make things easier for everyone involved. Welcome :)

 

Now THAT makes all the difference in the world (for me at least).

 

That only leaves me with the question I asked earlier about the ROKU app(s), and, is there an older version that will install on XP, just to see how the program looks/feels and try out the ROKU app etc?  Not for permanent use, just to get a feel....

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i really like our Roku app and i think the community will have good things to say about it. 

 

as far as XP, the issue isn't so much XP itself but we need the .net framework 4.5. and the 4.5 framework installation does not support XP. if you just want to play with it for testing purposes using your XP machine, I suppose you could always install VirtualBox and create a windows 7 VM and test it out in there.

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spootdev

You basically just listed all the reasons that Plex and the developers pissed me off.  I switched to Emby not that long ago and haven't really looked back.  The media management is way better imho and you can actually have a sensible discussion about bugs/changes here.

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