Can someone help me with Networking please?

[Cheesegeezer 3086]

I have no idea where to start.  I'm having some trenches dug out in the near future and having power correctly installed to the out buildings rather than a crappy bit of 2.5mm cable running overhead that the old owner ran.  Anyway that was cut down and uninstalled the moment I moved in.

 

However with these trenches dug, I will be laying water pipe, then some 10mm 3 Core Armored electrical cable in a sandwich of sand, then i thought i'd lay some network cable ontop of the sand.  

 

So I've ordered some pretty good shielded Cat6 (305m/1000ft) to lay ontop, but I will need a Gigabit switch to obviously distribute the network to the outbuildings.

 

I was looking at an 8 port smart gigabit switch which would then feed wireless AP's inside them. I also need the network for CCTV and for audio/video intercom for the front gates when i get round to doing that.

 

I'm shocking with networking, but could do with any help that one of you kind community members may be able to give.

 

If you need more info or diagrams just shout.

 

Cheers in advance

[pir8radio 1292]

Upload a diagram...   with some distances between everything...     I personally would do fiber between buildings...  if you don't have the cash for switches with fiber ports, or don't want to get rid of your existing stuff you can buy fiber to gig converters..    Lightning reeks havoc on copper Ethernet especially long runs..   it doesn't even have to be a super close hit and you will pop the port.  the fiber optically isolates your big copper antenna from everything and each other.      But copper can work too..  I would use special Ethernet at a minimum with two or more cables in it, if something fails or something eats into your cable it would suck to dig it back up.  Google "Flooded Cat6".  

 

This is what I do for a living...  we have fiber, copper, microwave, and 900Mhz links to create a sonet ring all over the state...  The two things we fight the most are animals (mice, raccoons)  they love to eat wire..  keep it in PVC conduit anywhere its in the open outside.  Lightning is the second thing we fight, even with the best polyphaser lightning arresters on the copper it will find its way in.

 

Also you will probably want gig POE switches at each building with a small UPS unit for your IP cameras, my Panasonic IP cameras are full 1080 HD and they only have 10/100 ports on each camera, so you may not need an all gig switch, but it never hurts.

Edited March 25, 2015 by pir8radio

[Cheesegeezer 3086]

Upload a diagram...   with some distances between everything...     I personally would do fiber between buildings...  if you don't have the cash for switches with fiber ports, or don't want to get rid of your existing stuff you can buy fiber to gig converters..    Lightning reeks havoc on copper Ethernet especially long runs..   it doesn't even have to be a super close hit and you will pop the port.  the fiber optically isolates your big copper antenna from everything and each other.      But copper can work too..  I would use special Ethernet at a minimum with two or more cables in it, if something fails or something eats into your cable it would suck to dig it back up.  Google "Flooded Cat6".  

 

This is what I do for a living...  we have fiber, copper, microwave, and 900Mhz links to create a sonet ring all over the state...  The two things we fight the most are animals (mice, raccoons)  they love to eat wire..  keep it in PVC conduit anywhere its in the open outside.  Lightning is the second thing we fight, even with the best polyphaser lightning arresters on the copper it will find its way in.

 

Also you will probably want gig POE switches at each building with a small UPS unit for your IP cameras, my Panasonic IP cameras are full 1080 HD and they only have 10/100 ports on each camera, so you may not need an all gig switch, but it never hurts.

Thats some really useful information.  I will get some diagrams uploaded to give you an idea. 

 

I was going to put the cat6 inside some plastic pipe to give it some protection.  Also I live in scotland and we never have thunderstorms in our area as there is no cold/warm air mixing, its just generally cold air lol, that mixing occurs miles away over some small mountains.  Problem is I've already bought the cable and dont want to shed out a load more cash.

 

Really appreciate you help and as I said i will get some diagrams up later. Thanks

Edited March 26, 2015 by Cheesegeezer

[aspdend 174]

Cheese, looking at the UK Lightning Flash Density map - it looks like the number of strikes per year per square kilometre is 0.1 or less, (we normally use 0.71 here in the south of England) so it does appear that you have quite a low risk of lightning strikes on your cabling, however, anything in the immediate vicinity can induce transient currents and thus overvoltages in the cabling, so you may want to consider Surge Protection Devices (SPD's) where the cables enter the building.

 

Burying the cable in duct is a good idea - we normally recommend polypipe equipment, but that's not necessary. If you bring the ducts into the building, don't forget to seal the ends once the cables are in to prevent rodent ingress!

 

I'm with pir8radio - always lay more runs than you need because it is easier to connect an installed cable than it is to dig up the trench and lay a new one - and the cable costs are relatively cheap. If the rodents get to the cable, they will eat it, especially rats and mice and that does apply to the armoured cable as well I'm afraid. if you can, lay runs of data cable in separate ducts, but I appreciate that is more expensive.

 

Out of interest - if the previous owner ran 2.5mm T&E overhead, why are you using 10mm armoured as the current carrying capacity of that cable is far higher and the cable much bigger?

 

If you are running an intercom to the front gates, are you also powering the gates? Don't forget the power supply out to them at this stage..

 

Look forward to seeing your maps

[Cheesegeezer 3086]

Cheese, looking at the UK Lightning Flash Density map - it looks like the number of strikes per year per square kilometre is 0.1 or less, (we normally use 0.71 here in the south of England) so it does appear that you have quite a low risk of lightning strikes on your cabling, however, anything in the immediate vicinity can induce transient currents and thus overvoltages in the cabling, so you may want to consider Surge Protection Devices (SPD's) where the cables enter the building.

 

Burying the cable in duct is a good idea - we normally recommend polypipe equipment, but that's not necessary. If you bring the ducts into the building, don't forget to seal the ends once the cables are in to prevent rodent ingress!

 

I'm with pir8radio - always lay more runs than you need because it is easier to connect an installed cable than it is to dig up the trench and lay a new one - and the cable costs are relatively cheap. If the rodents get to the cable, they will eat it, especially rats and mice and that does apply to the armoured cable as well I'm afraid. if you can, lay runs of data cable in separate ducts, but I appreciate that is more expensive.

 

Out of interest - if the previous owner ran 2.5mm T&E overhead, why are you using 10mm armoured as the current carrying capacity of that cable is far higher and the cable much bigger?

 

If you are running an intercom to the front gates, are you also powering the gates? Don't forget the power supply out to them at this stage..

 

Look forward to seeing your maps

gimme an hour need to drop the car off at the garage for repairs and MOT, but i'll get back to you once i'm back

[CashMoney 94]

Do  you have any sentient lego men? You could put them in the pipe to gaurd against the rodents eating the cable. Think of it as Alien but on a smaller scale

 

Seriously though, I echo everyone's thoughts on running twice the cable you need. But I was wondering, just how much bandwidth do you need? If you're running electric out there, what about Powerline adapters? Would they not serve enough?

 

One of my customers has an out building which originally we used cat6 via the same pipe as the electric (solid stainless steel) which worked fine for years. Then for whatever reason it just stopped working. We (stupidly) didn't put in a second cable, but we did run some strong cord to allow us to re-pull the cable and/or add additional cables at a later date. After checking in random areas to make sure the steel pipe was ok, we checked the ethernet cable; no visual signs of teeth marks, twists or anything to indicate why it failed, but it did. In the end, rather than re-pulling more cat6, we just moved over to powerline adapters (500Mbps). The owner uses it for general wifi, and for 2 NowTV boxes running Emby. Had no complaints in the past year since we did it.

[Cheesegeezer 3086]

Thanks for all your responses so far.

 

I'll explain a little more in detail now.

 

First the Diagram

 

 

So

from House to Stables is approx 60m

from House to Garage is approx 60m

from House to Lodge is approx 100m

RedBoxes will indicate either switches/WAP or both

Green box indicates the current Satellite internet modem + WAN 4 Port Gigabit Router

 

Reason for using "proper" 3Core Armored cabling for electrics is mainly the current draw for both the Garage and the Stables will far out weigh what a convention 45A circuit will be able to deliver off the MCB panel in the house.  Garage will have compressor and welder in there. Plus the log cabin is a 2 Bedroom apartment complete with Kitchen, Lounge, Bathroom with shower and 2 bedrooms - its really a guest house. So i also have 3 runs of the 3Core electrical cable to each building.

 

So I will basically have 3 new ring mains circuits which come direct from the power grid and then into their own MCB panels in each of the buildings.  Allowing me to create new ring and lighting circuits for each and done correclyt and inline with 17E compliances.

 

Also each will have it's own water supply supplied by the house but off the mains pressure.

 

And whilst i had a trench dug which will be a minimum of 750mm deep I thought i would throw in some network cable.

 

My main questions is what equipment should I select for each building. Now you've got me thinking more ideas.

 

Electric gates will run off the Stables Ring circuit and if network is required can also hook into the LAN switch will be in there. Plus will have a CCTV camera mounted on the pillars.

Stable will also have CCTV installed externally and internally (for when the horses foal) + Wifi extention of current SSID

Garage will have a TV for when i'm tinkering, streaming music, putting on Youtube for learning stuff and obviously MB, and also have CCTV Externally from there. Plus another WAP on current SSID

Lodge for obvious reasons will require a WAP for internet use and MB for guests to chill and watch movies.

 

Rodents aren't an issue with 3 excellent present bringers (I refer to my cats). However running the LAN Cables in standard 25mm blue water pipe and into the buildings is what i plan to do anyway.

 

Hope that explains things a lot better now for you guys to make some informed decisions on how you would go about setting this up.

 

Cheers

Edited March 26, 2015 by Cheesegeezer