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1.3.3 Subtitle Problem


Painkiller8818

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Painkiller8818

Server: Win 10
Emby Version: 4.7.6.0
TV: Samsung Q90r
Emby App Version: 1.3.3

It seems changing the subtitles does not work in this version.

I am watching a Netflix show with lots of subtitles but whatever i set as subtitle it is taking the first one available.

I know this is a problem with the new app as i watched the same show already without this problem.

Turning the subtitles off and on again does not fix it, in this show arabic is the 1st available so if i set to german forced, it is still arabic.

Thanks

 

 

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Painkiller8818

here is the embyserver logfile.
No transcoding log as it is direct play

embyserver.txt

Edited by Painkiller8818
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What did you play and at what time? What exactly happened and what did you expect to happen?

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Painkiller8818
21 minutes ago, Luke said:

What did you play and at what time? What exactly happened and what did you expect to happen?

at the very end of the file you see what i played last it was the show Fate, i turned off sub lang and turned on again, it was still arabic so i changed to another lang to check if only german has a bug, but it was still arabic, i expected to have german forced subtitles if i set them.

thanks

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6 minutes ago, Painkiller8818 said:

at the very end of the file you see what i played last it was the show Fate, i turned off sub lang and turned on again, it was still arabic so i changed to another lang to check if only german has a bug, but it was still arabic, i expected to have german forced subtitles if i set them.

thanks

Can you provide a sample video for testing? Thanks.

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Painkiller8818
9 minutes ago, Luke said:

Can you provide a sample video for testing? Thanks.

hm, no idea how to cut out a piece of an episode, the full one is over 1gb..

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FrostByte
4 minutes ago, Painkiller8818 said:

hm, no idea how to cut out a piece of an episode, the full one is over 1gb..

1gb isn't all that big, but Mkvtoolnix will split a video by chapter, length, size, etc if you ever need to

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FrostByte

I'm seeing the same with my 2018 and this file.  It doesn't play the default subtitle shown before clicking play.  Instead, it always plays the first subtitle (which is the Arabic one) in the file.  Though if after you click play you then choose the German subtitle you want then it plays the correct one.

Also, since this file has more than 30 tracks it skipped throughout.  I remuxed it and removed everything after French (SDH) which left about 15 subtitles and it played smooth.

I then tested this against some of my files.  I tend to remux and remove everything but all the English subs.  However, it always played the correct subtitle in my files and not just the first one in the file.  If English (SDH) was chosen and there was an English forced one above it, then it still played the English (SDH) one.  Difference was my files only have one subtitle language which is my default

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SamES
1 hour ago, FrostByte said:

I'm seeing the same with my 2018 and this file.  It doesn't play the default subtitle shown before clicking play.  Instead, it always plays the first subtitle (which is the Arabic one) in the file.  Though if after you click play you then choose the German subtitle you want then it plays the correct one.

Also, since this file has more than 30 tracks it skipped throughout.  I remuxed it and removed everything after French (SDH) which left about 15 subtitles and it played smooth.

I then tested this against some of my files.  I tend to remux and remove everything but all the English subs.  However, it always played the correct subtitle in my files and not just the first one in the file.  If English (SDH) was chosen and there was an English forced one above it, then it still played the English (SDH) one.  Difference was my files only have one subtitle language which is my default

I think you might be on the right track here.  We know the Samsung player has issues when there are a large number of subs.  I'll try this and see if I can reproduce it, but I suspect there may not be much that we can do about it.

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FrostByte

Definitely needs more testing.

Even when I remuxed leaving only 15 subs the sample file still didn't play the German subtitle to start with which was displayed on the details screen.  It wanted to play the first subtitle in the file.  Only after clicking play and selecting the German track did it work.  All that really did was make it play without the stuttering.

My files have 1 - 3 tracks (Forced, Full, SDH) at most and they're all English.

Might need to test some more with external and internal subs too.  To see if that makes a difference.  Maybe if you extracted all 40 subs and removed the internal ones it would work 🤣

There's a new plugin I'm testing just because of this issue with Samsung.  It removes all the subtitle languages you don't select for keeping, extracts the srt ones you want to keep and removes them from the file also.  So, what I'm left with is a file with only English PGS internal and English SRT subs external.  

 

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Painkiller8818

Thanks for testing. I also tested this file with VLC Player because maybe the file has a problem but in VLC it works like it should.

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SamES

I think what you have found is a very curious anomaly.  I will try and explain what I think is going on.

Firstly, if I look at the Arabic and German subtitle tracks, the timing of the Arabic subs is earlier than the German.  They also both start quite near to the start of the program

image.thumb.png.c56c83569ed7e813595c6656ec7bcb59.png

There are some assumptions now on what I think the internal player is doing.

When the player loads, I believe it always loads the first subtitle track.  However, we either turn subtitles off, or select the users selected track when playback starts.  This is an important point.  You can't select subs before it starts, it can only occur once the file has been loaded into the player.  This means on initial playback the first subtitle track is always loaded.

I have confirmed in the debugger that we do the subtitle track selection very quickly, within the first second of playback.

As the Arabic subs are immediately loaded, while we try and change to German subs when playback starts, I suspect the Arabic subs are already queued in the player and start showing before the player internally switches to the German track.

There is another problem here, and @FrostByte is on the right track.  There are too many tracks in this file and the player can't cope. This is what is causing the stuttering playback.  We've seen this before and know it is a problem.  As a result of the stuttering, I believe the player is missing subtitle timing events.

When I select German subs and start playback, this is what I'm seeing:

  • At ~8 seconds the Arabic Netflix sub appears
    • It does not disappear at 12.375 seconds (as it is supposed to), however I do see stuttering at this time and I think the player is missing the event to turn off this sub line
  • At 32 seconds, I do start to see German subs. 
    • Again, as  result of the stuttering, I think the German Netflix line at 9.5 seconds is missed

If I run this through MkvToolNix and only select the first 8 sub streams, I get playback without stuttering. 

Now I see this:

  • At ~8 seconds the Arabic Netflix sub appears
    • I think this is because it is already queued by the player
  • At ~9.5 seconds, I see the German Netflix line displayed
  • All sub lines are now in German

So how best to summarise

  • The combination of different subtitle times between the two languages for the first subtitle line, and the fact that they are so close to the start of the program is causing the Arabic line to initially show
  • The large number of sub streams is causing the playback to stutter, which is causing the event to hide the Arabic sub to be missed.
  • The next sub line is not until 32 seconds, so the Arabic sub remains visible until at least this time.  
    • Due to stuttering, it is possible that it even stays longer if the player is missing more subtitle events.

Please let me know if this makes sense and matches with what you see.  If you wait long enough, do you eventually see German subs appear?  It will take at least 32 seconds, or possibly longer.

Here is one more test, which I think proves this theory.  The Czech track has the same timing as the Arabic track.  If you select the Czech track before playback, you will find that you no longer see the Arabic track, only Czech.  As the timings match, the problem doesn't occur in the same way as it does with the German track.

The fix here is to remove some of the subtitle tracks and ignore 3 seconds of the Arabic subtitle (or manually fix the subtitle timings if you really feel the need for this to be perfect)

 

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Painkiller8818
On 8/21/2022 at 3:15 PM, SamES said:

I think what you have found is a very curious anomaly.  I will try and explain what I think is going on.

Firstly, if I look at the Arabic and German subtitle tracks, the timing of the Arabic subs is earlier than the German.  They also both start quite near to the start of the program

image.thumb.png.c56c83569ed7e813595c6656ec7bcb59.png

There are some assumptions now on what I think the internal player is doing.

When the player loads, I believe it always loads the first subtitle track.  However, we either turn subtitles off, or select the users selected track when playback starts.  This is an important point.  You can't select subs before it starts, it can only occur once the file has been loaded into the player.  This means on initial playback the first subtitle track is always loaded.

I have confirmed in the debugger that we do the subtitle track selection very quickly, within the first second of playback.

As the Arabic subs are immediately loaded, while we try and change to German subs when playback starts, I suspect the Arabic subs are already queued in the player and start showing before the player internally switches to the German track.

There is another problem here, and @FrostByte is on the right track.  There are too many tracks in this file and the player can't cope. This is what is causing the stuttering playback.  We've seen this before and know it is a problem.  As a result of the stuttering, I believe the player is missing subtitle timing events.

When I select German subs and start playback, this is what I'm seeing:

  • At ~8 seconds the Arabic Netflix sub appears
    • It does not disappear at 12.375 seconds (as it is supposed to), however I do see stuttering at this time and I think the player is missing the event to turn off this sub line
  • At 32 seconds, I do start to see German subs. 
    • Again, as  result of the stuttering, I think the German Netflix line at 9.5 seconds is missed

If I run this through MkvToolNix and only select the first 8 sub streams, I get playback without stuttering. 

Now I see this:

  • At ~8 seconds the Arabic Netflix sub appears
    • I think this is because it is already queued by the player
  • At ~9.5 seconds, I see the German Netflix line displayed
  • All sub lines are now in German

So how best to summarise

  • The combination of different subtitle times between the two languages for the first subtitle line, and the fact that they are so close to the start of the program is causing the Arabic line to initially show
  • The large number of sub streams is causing the playback to stutter, which is causing the event to hide the Arabic sub to be missed.
  • The next sub line is not until 32 seconds, so the Arabic sub remains visible until at least this time.  
    • Due to stuttering, it is possible that it even stays longer if the player is missing more subtitle events.

Please let me know if this makes sense and matches with what you see.  If you wait long enough, do you eventually see German subs appear?  It will take at least 32 seconds, or possibly longer.

Here is one more test, which I think proves this theory.  The Czech track has the same timing as the Arabic track.  If you select the Czech track before playback, you will find that you no longer see the Arabic track, only Czech.  As the timings match, the problem doesn't occur in the same way as it does with the German track.

The fix here is to remove some of the subtitle tracks and ignore 3 seconds of the Arabic subtitle (or manually fix the subtitle timings if you really feel the need for this to be perfect)

 

Thanks for your explaination.

I don't had any stuttering (video or audio stuttering) i just recorgnized the wrong subtitle.

I have another show from netflix having the same issue on episode 2.

I never had this before and now i had it on 2 shows within a week. I have a lot shows from netflix and as already mentioned, i wathced the show already where i send the file.


So whatever changed, it seems to be new and not appearing in previous versions.

I can upload the new show i talked about if you wanna check if it is the same here.

Thanks for all your time

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Painkiller8818

@SamES

What you said about the "timing" seems to be true.

I stopped the actual show where i have this problem, started it again with german forced subtitle pre selected, and clicked on pause immediately when the stream starts.
I waited 3 seconds and checked my subtitle setting in OSD, after that i started the playback and now the arabic subtitles are gone :)
 

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SamES
5 hours ago, Painkiller8818 said:

I never had this before and now i had it on 2 shows within a week. I have a lot shows from netflix and as already mentioned, i wathced the show already where i send the file.

Thanks for the feedback and confirming your observations.  I think 'what's changed' is that these platforms, particularly Netflix and AppleTV have added support for many more languages, which has tipped us over the edge in terms of how many tracks the Samsung player can cope with.

We have actually seen this issue for several years, so I expect if you go back and check your older files you will find that they just have less subs (or audio) tracks

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Painkiller8818
On 8/24/2022 at 11:52 PM, SamES said:

Thanks for the feedback and confirming your observations.  I think 'what's changed' is that these platforms, particularly Netflix and AppleTV have added support for many more languages, which has tipped us over the edge in terms of how many tracks the Samsung player can cope with.

We have actually seen this issue for several years, so I expect if you go back and check your older files you will find that they just have less subs (or audio) tracks

This is the strange thing, as mentioned the Show i reported and uploaded is one i already saw and i didn't had the Problem. 

 

So nothing changed for this Show on my NAS, i haven't added more subtitles and now this Problem Shows up. 

 

Edited by Painkiller8818
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Painkiller8818

OK i checked this now with some of my old Movies where i know it worked (non Netflix)

Now i can say for sure, an emby update messed this up.

I have this on my old movies as well. I tested a few and ether it is the problem like i described it OR the subs show up for a second and disappear immediately, so fast you can't read em but you recorgnize a quick white flashing up.

Today i watched Assassins Creed 4K with all the subs originally from my disc, it worked every time till now but today or lets say with the actual version, it gives me the english subs instead of the german forced 

So i can say for a 100% sure, this has been messed up with one of the latest updates.

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Painkiller8818
8 hours ago, SamES said:

What is the playback method in stats for nerds?  Can you post a picture?

Sure.

This is again the 4K movie, Audio is transcoding because DTS on Samsung.
Everything else is direct

 

image.jpeg

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SamES

Thanks.  As a test, do you have an AC3 track in that file (any language is fine)?  Can you try it and confirm that it is now DirectPlay (not HLS) and then see whether the subs problem goes away?

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Painkiller8818
1 hour ago, SamES said:

Thanks.  As a test, do you have an AC3 track in that file (any language is fine)?  Can you try it and confirm that it is now DirectPlay (not HLS) and then see whether the subs problem goes away?

there was an english AC3 on it, and i used it with german forced subs.

Full Direct play

INFO: maybe this is helpful: this movie file does have 9 Subs at all, so far away from the 30 like i saw in other posts.
All SUBS are embedded, no external subs


i had 2 different experiences right now:

1st start:
The subs are just popping up really quick. I stopped the movie and started it again, now sus are showing correct and german, but the subs doesn't disappear till the next one shows up. (but the fast popups i see they are german)

2nd start:
i forgot a screenshot of the emby server infos itself so i started the movie and jumped a few times +30sec and the subs show up correct

3rd start
I wanted to confirm this, so i started a 3rd time without jumping, and same problem they are german, but go away right when the show up.

Really seems like a rendering problem or something

image.png.f5e7d12753f487a4f2be0977560f7aa1.png

20220827_125457.jpg

Edited by Painkiller8818
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