Vicpa 549 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Hi, In contemporary music the writer tag is used often in place of the composer tag. The most notable example is Lennon and McCartney. Most of my Beatle's tracks are tagged like below (This is the track from Rubber Soul.) The request is read the "Writer" tag and map to emby "composer" Thanks -vicpa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 36886 Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 Hi, I guess the question is whether or not this makes sense for all audio files? @ginjaninja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicpa 549 Posted March 6, 2022 Author Share Posted March 6, 2022 Hi I think it does for music... AudioBooks obviously no. It is not just "The Beatles" I can find countless examples. Here is 10cc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginjaninja 533 Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 1 hour ago, Vicpa said: Hi I think it does for music... AudioBooks obviously no. It is not just "The Beatles" I can find countless examples. Here is 10cc i guess with all these types of suggestions, the consistency/feasibility comes down to what frame in what tagging format/version is being referred to and how ffprobe can interpret that info across the various file/tag formats do you have a copy of file with 'writer' populated, to take a look at? are we talking about id3tag #TEXT, or #TOLY or even #TXXX="writer", or perhaps another tagging format other than id3v2 TEXT The 'Lyricist/Text writer' frame is intended for the writer of the text or lyrics in the recording. TOLY The 'Original lyricist/text writer' frame is intended for the text writer of the original recording, if for example the music in the file should be a cover of a previously released song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicpa 549 Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 Hi I collect a sample track and post it. But in the meantime below is the MB tag mappings from their site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicpa 549 Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) Hi @ginjaninja Below is the ffprobe output of a flac track tagged by MB. Input #0, flac, from 'file:D:\XXXXXX\10 Get It While You Can.flac': Metadata: MUSICBRAINZ_RELEASEGROUPID: 12e8510d-f95b-3b10-8b62-8048f2578844 ORIGINALDATE : 1976-01 ORIGINALYEAR : 1976 RELEASETYPE : album MUSICBRAINZ_ALBUMID: c934405c-0173-4669-8d02-7c9c9b3d51be BARCODE : 731453497528 RELEASESTATUS : official ALBUM : How Dare You! ASIN : B000006U4M MUSICBRAINZ_ALBUMARTISTID: f37c537b-3557-4031-bfd6-ab63ced32854 album_artist : 10cc ALBUMARTISTSORT : 10cc DATE : 1976-01 LABEL : Mercury Records CATALOGNUMBER : 534 975-2 SCRIPT : Latn RELEASECOUNTRY : GB TOTALDISCS : 1 disc : 1 TOTALTRACKS : 10 MEDIA : CD MUSICBRAINZ_TRACKID: 064a0430-8957-4539-936d-e0b67f691af8 TITLE : Get It While You Can ISRC : GBF087500151 PRODUCER : 10cc MUSICBRAINZ_WORKID: a0706b0b-9d85-4748-b1b0-792ebf6c3892 LANGUAGE : eng WORK : Get It While You Can WRITER : Graham Gouldman;Eric Stewart MUSICBRAINZ_ARTISTID: f37c537b-3557-4031-bfd6-ab63ced32854 ARTIST : 10cc ARTISTSORT : 10cc ARTISTS : 10cc MUSICBRAINZ_RELEASETRACKID: d6fee892-9fe9-37af-9ac0-617cf785675a track : 10 WEBSITE : https://10cc.world/ GENRE : Alternative Rock MUSICBRAINZ_DISCID: FvnalrMUZasc6Objdbc75M1.BZg- TRACKTOTAL : 10 DISCTOTAL : 1 Duration: 00:02:55.44, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 1000 kb/s Stream #0:0: Audio: flac, 44100 Hz, stereo, s16 Stream #0:1: Video: mjpeg, yuvj444p(pc, bt470bg/unknown/unknown), 1000x1000, 90k tbr, 90k tbn, 90k tbc Metadata: comment : Cover (front) "streams": [ { "index": 0, "codec_name": "flac", "codec_long_name": "FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec)", "codec_type": "audio", "codec_time_base": "1/44100", "codec_tag_string": "[0][0][0][0]", "codec_tag": "0x0000", "sample_fmt": "s16", "sample_rate": "44100", "channels": 2, "channel_layout": "stereo", "bits_per_sample": 0, "r_frame_rate": "0/0", "avg_frame_rate": "0/0", "time_base": "1/44100", "start_pts": 0, "start_time": "0.000000", "duration_ts": 7736904, "duration": "175.440000", "bits_per_raw_sample": "16", "disposition": { "default": 0, "dub": 0, "original": 0, "comment": 0, "lyrics": 0, "karaoke": 0, "forced": 0, "hearing_impaired": 0, "visual_impaired": 0, "clean_effects": 0, "attached_pic": 0, "timed_thumbnails": 0 } }, { "index": 1, "codec_name": "mjpeg", "codec_long_name": "Motion JPEG", "profile": "192", "codec_type": "video", "codec_time_base": "0/1", "codec_tag_string": "[0][0][0][0]", "codec_tag": "0x0000", "width": 1000, "height": 1000, "coded_width": 1000, "coded_height": 1000, "has_b_frames": 0, "pix_fmt": "yuvj444p", "level": -99, "color_range": "pc", "color_space": "bt470bg", "chroma_location": "center", "refs": 1, "r_frame_rate": "90000/1", "avg_frame_rate": "0/0", "time_base": "1/90000", "start_pts": 0, "start_time": "0.000000", "duration_ts": 15789600, "duration": "175.440000", "bits_per_raw_sample": "8", "disposition": { "default": 0, "dub": 0, "original": 0, "comment": 0, "lyrics": 0, "karaoke": 0, "forced": 0, "hearing_impaired": 0, "visual_impaired": 0, "clean_effects": 0, "attached_pic": 1, "timed_thumbnails": 0 }, "tags": { "comment": "Cover (front)" } } ], "format": { "filename": "file:D:\\Public\\Win 10\\10 Get It While You Can.flac", "nb_streams": 2, "nb_programs": 0, "format_name": "flac", "format_long_name": "raw FLAC", "start_time": "0.000000", "duration": "175.440000", "size": "21930034", "bit_rate": "1000001", "probe_score": 100, "tags": { "MUSICBRAINZ_RELEASEGROUPID": "12e8510d-f95b-3b10-8b62-8048f2578844", "ORIGINALDATE": "1976-01", "ORIGINALYEAR": "1976", "RELEASETYPE": "album", "MUSICBRAINZ_ALBUMID": "c934405c-0173-4669-8d02-7c9c9b3d51be", "BARCODE": "731453497528", "RELEASESTATUS": "official", "ALBUM": "How Dare You!", "ASIN": "B000006U4M", "MUSICBRAINZ_ALBUMARTISTID": "f37c537b-3557-4031-bfd6-ab63ced32854", "album_artist": "10cc", "ALBUMARTISTSORT": "10cc", "DATE": "1976-01", "LABEL": "Mercury Records", "CATALOGNUMBER": "534 975-2", "SCRIPT": "Latn", "RELEASECOUNTRY": "GB", "TOTALDISCS": "1", "disc": "1", "TOTALTRACKS": "10", "MEDIA": "CD", "MUSICBRAINZ_TRACKID": "064a0430-8957-4539-936d-e0b67f691af8", "TITLE": "Get It While You Can", "ISRC": "GBF087500151", "PRODUCER": "10cc", "MUSICBRAINZ_WORKID": "a0706b0b-9d85-4748-b1b0-792ebf6c3892", "LANGUAGE": "eng", "WORK": "Get It While You Can", "WRITER": "Graham Gouldman;Eric Stewart", "MUSICBRAINZ_ARTISTID": "f37c537b-3557-4031-bfd6-ab63ced32854", "ARTIST": "10cc", "ARTISTSORT": "10cc", "ARTISTS": "10cc", "MUSICBRAINZ_RELEASETRACKID": "d6fee892-9fe9-37af-9ac0-617cf785675a", "track": "10", "WEBSITE": "https://10cc.world/", "GENRE": "Alternative Rock", "MUSICBRAINZ_DISCID": "FvnalrMUZasc6Objdbc75M1.BZg-", "TRACKTOTAL": "10", "DISCTOTAL": "1" -vicpa Edited March 7, 2022 by Vicpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginjaninja 533 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 PS i am not speaking from any experience, just thinking about it for the first time. I use Picard to write my tags and have found that some of files have #TEXT populated by Picard, and some of the files have #TXXX:Writer populated. i note Picard can be configured to eg save TXXX:writer as composer, if the user wanted to force the outcome. $set(composer,%writer%) on one hand 'writer' doesnt seem to have exactly the same meaning as 'composer'. my gut feel is composer is to music arrangement what writer is to lyrics, and the id3 specification seems to go to the trouble of separating writer/lyricist from composer. i wonder why mbz/picard community sometimes stores writer as lyricist relationship and sometimes stores writer as writer relationship; this suggests lyricist should generally be used in preference to writer In many cases, the composer, lyricist and/or librettist relationship types should be used Incidentally ffprobe reads id3v2 #TEXT as TEXT, #TOLY as TOLY as #TXXX:Writer as Writer as Vicpas already shown as an aside, it seem some softwares refer to Lyricist and Originallyricist for #TEXT and #TOLY eg. mp3tag. in the long term it seems, there *could* be value in Emby being aware of "writer/lyricist" independently of "composer" in the short term, any user could set their tagging software to store txxx:writer as composer should they wish....but on the face of it there doesnt seem to be a downside in Emby promoting ffprobe's #TEXT|#TOLY|#TXXX:Writer output to "composer" when composer is blank. (if i have understood Vicpas request correctly). They are close enough to be useful/meaningful when composer is otherwise blank. I wonder what drives Author on audiobooks in emby's world......and should that go into the mix....given writer is even more crucial to audiobook consumption potentially and probably the writer/lyricist (#TEXT|#TOLY|#TXXX:Writer) is the Author in all cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 36886 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Yea that's what I'm worried about, is whether we'd start getting complaints from users who start seeing unexpected composers in the Emby UI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicpa 549 Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 Hi @Luke and @ginjaninja 1 hour ago, ginjaninja said: on one hand 'writer' doesnt seem to have exactly the same meaning as 'composer'. my gut feel is composer is to music arrangement what writer is to lyrics, and the id3 specification seems to go to the trouble of separating writer/lyricist from composer. i wonder why mbz/picard community sometimes stores writer as lyricist relationship and sometimes stores writer as writer relationship; this suggests lyricist should generally be used in preference to writer To expand on a couple of points. Picard based on its own documentation uses: 1) Writer: Used when uncertain whether composer or lyricist. So the tag is mutually exclusive. 2) Picard has it own tag for Lyricist. (Which emby doesn't capture either) 3) Guys.. I just use Picard pretty much out of the box. I am not doing any custom mappings. When I tag an album, I just open it in Picard, it gives me a) a Composer if there is one b) a Lyricist if there is one. c) a Writer if there is no Composer or no Lyricist and there is one. 1 hour ago, Luke said: Yea that's what I'm worried about, is whether we'd start getting complaints from users who start seeing unexpected composers in the Emby UI. Luke.. Users should not see unexpected composers in the emby UI. You would never be a "writer" if you are a composer on a track. Only the people that have music tracks tagged with writer should see any change. That is an improvement. -vicpa @Happy2Play @FrostByte thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostByte 5024 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) I've seen a few posts where people say they only use the composers tag for classical music genre. So, you're saying it can't populate writers unless someone choses to use composers (and there isn't one) so it uses writers instead? If you can't fill writers without selecting to use composers first, then I'm not sure it would harm anyone. This request makes sense to me if that's the case. However, someone is bound to complain either way because they won't be aware they already have music with the writer tag that magically got there. Edited March 7, 2022 by FrostByte 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginjaninja 533 Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 (edited) Spoiler assessing (eyeballing) tracks in my library using mp3tag (mp3tags assessment of lyricist, originallyricist and writer) i have learnt 27% of tracks have writer populated (across mp3s and flacs much more than expected) 0% tracks have originallyricist (no ones using this :-)) 31% of tracks have lyricist populated 40% of tracks have composer populated where writer is populated, composers is only populated <5% and in >90% of cases when both are populated writer does not match composer. where writer is populated, lyricist is only populated <5% and in >90% of cases when both are populated writer does not match lyricist. when lyricist is populated, composer is also populated in >95% cases, and lyricist matches composer only in about 75% cases. none of my classical tracks has writer populated for audiobooks lyricist is never used for anything, writer is 100% the author when populated but not widely populated. Composer is sometimes the reader and sometimes the author, and again not widely populated. As Vicpas has said and i have only just appreciated, MBZ's 'writer' is used when the more specific relationship (Composer, Lyricist) is not known. So by definition all composers and lyricists are writers (in MBZ terms) and some writers are composers. (and some writers are lyricists) i think it would be an improvement to interpret writer as composer....possibly because i dont use 'composer' to appreciate THE COMPOSER (i am not a classical buff), but i would like to use something akin to composer to see who is related to the work and what work someone is related to. I am missing seeing the related artist on about 25% of my library as the related artist is only stored in writer. Classical buffs probably are a bit more protective of composer, but in the absence of Emby supporting wider concepts of work relationship in music, it seems a bit greedy for the classical community to say they have it all their own way with 'composer'. After all classical buffs can always create a separate classical library to keep their classical composer UI 'clean'. Spoiler in the longer term i for one am very interested to know any and all related artists to a track and in particular the lyricist for contemporary music and author for audiobooks. Edited March 8, 2022 by ginjaninja 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 36886 Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 OK so we'll do this now for music libraries. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicpa 549 Posted March 15, 2022 Author Share Posted March 15, 2022 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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