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Folders: Is it possible to differentiate between Movies and Series?


Lighthammer

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Lighthammer

I'm trying to (re)build my "Complete Collections" section post January's patch in which I used to have a set of collections that were absolutely separate from from Movie Collections. This was to let the movie collections do its thing while I used customized collections to put together all Movies, TV Series, Music, Games, Comics and other media that may related.

 

Since I can no longer do this from XML files, I'm trying to do this from simlinks now --- moving all relevant media into folders via simlinks; allowing them to exist in in their original groupings while now also being affiliated with my "Series Collections" (aka, the above described collections).

This seems to work fine, at this point, when I have just one media type; however, the moment i introduce another media type (Say Movies and TV series) --- Emby groups everything into "Seasons".

Is there a way I can force Emby to keep them separated by the original media types how collections used to?

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Hi, can you give a specific example? I don't quite follow what you're trying to do. Thanks !

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Lighthammer

I believe these screen shots will properly show everything you need to know.

PS --- I purposely made example three show the ENTIRE series as its currently displayed in part because its very easy to reference the first and last episode and see that there are, at the very least, a lot of episodes in between that aren't being grouped as seasons in their own right.

2019-03-17 Emby Folder Issues.zip

Edited by Lighthammer
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What you're looking for in:

Example #02 - Folder View - Should look like.png

That has never been supported. I see some of these are using windows shortcuts, is that correct? I really would just suggest simplifying and embracing our collections feature in the web interface.

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Lighthammer

No, as stated, those are symlinks. I'm sure you know better then anyone else that shortcuts wouldn't even be seen by Emby as it would approach them as a file, not a link.

 

Slightly unrelated, I am actually surprised that Emby has the ability to look at symlinked folders differently then the original folder (IE If original folder is in the TV Series library and the linked folders but is in a different library with a symlinked folder, it can (if configured right) use the TV Series metadata in folder while storing the symlinked folder data else where).

 

Do you understand why I don't use the collections feature for this? I've literally been talking about this years.

It doesn't TRULY embrace the ability to separate based upon a particular universe and has the net affect of having to filter through a TON more collections that are things that should exist in its own place.

Let's look at the DCU Direct to Video items for instance. If I use collections to manage those, its going to give me:

- All the Batman Movies

- All the Superman Movies

- All the Superman/Batman Movies

- All the Justice League Movies

 

It won't even give me all the the DCU Direct to Video Movies in one place, let alone the continuities related. It gets worse when you try to look at other media such as comics or books that are in-continuity.

The Justice League Movies, alone have 6 different continuities they are playing with and many of them are stand alones. It won't even group together the current Tuckerverse in-universe movies since it pulls from metadata sources in which their guidelines don't recognize the relationship between the movies.

I don't mind letting the Movie Collections group things together and do its own thing. Its great for users to explore options --- but for people who want to see all the media related in a more concise manner, the only option that exists currently is the way I am doing it.

Metadata sources refuse to build collections based on in universe series unless you go to more niche websites such as WatchTower (who maintains a list, but not a database). I've gone multiple rounds with the administration at IMDB, TVDB, MovieDB and others trying to get to them to see the wisdom of having these sorts of organizations. 

Even looking at something much more mainstream like the MCU or Starwars Universe --- I can't accomplish these goals in a streamlined method within Collections. Let's not even talk about Disney stuff >.<

 

To be blunt, I *DID* 'embrace' collections before, I just forced Emby to use another folder for collections of a different nature.

I need my own collection that is 100% user definable.

The old method worked "well" --- not perfect, but "well". It was a bit of a pain in the butt since it all had to be done manually, but at least it could be accomplished.

Now, I'd say I can do about 50% of what I need/want with some major hiccups. 

I've even offered, in the past, to help build / maintain an internal database for Emby to manage these sorts of things. That really never went anywhere.

Edited by Lighthammer
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rbjtech

What you're looking for in:

Example #02 - Folder View - Should look like.png

That has never been supported. I see some of these are using windows shortcuts, is that correct? I really would just suggest simplifying and embracing our collections feature in the web interface.

 

unless I'm missing the point - you can add both movies and series to a collection - this works perfectly fine from a normal 'add to collection' in the GUI ?

 

My Star Wars Collection as an example (not sure why the screen looks like that, but you get the idea) -

 

 

5c915234d34f4_collections.png

 

5c9153410eb7e_collections2.png

 

Edited by rbjtech
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rbjtech

As a further example - I have an 'X-Men' collection setup - but within that there are actually 2 other 'collections' - DeadPool and Wolverine.

 

They show as 3 collections - but all reference the same source files - no symlinks or OS trickery in sight.

 

So if you want to create your own collections (which are subsets of other collections) then you can add them however you see fit just by using the 'add to collection' option on the film/series but using your 'own' collection.

 

To start a new collection - simply use the 'Add to Collection' on the first film/series and select 'New' ..

 

5c9157bd3f04f_addcollection.png

 

..and then just for giggles - I've added 2 TV series into my X-Men (film) collection ..

 

5c915de31a899_collections3.png

 

which when clicked on - all appear as they would do outside the collection.

 

So in summary - it's totally 100% user definable..   :)

Edited by rbjtech
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Lighthammer

I have 221 Movie Collections.

I have 20 "Series Collections" in my custom folder.

It's FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR too much of a mess to visually show quickly show related material.

The thing you're missing is sheer size and scope. 

Using Collections, previously, worked fine when I had something in the neighborhood of 200 movies on my server. My current movie count is 5,581 movies though. 

Better organization then what collections offered is needed to keep that mess easy to sort through.

For the record, if you missed it, my custom collections used to work IDENTICALLY to how Collections worked before, save I had to update everything in the XML file directly. From a UI stand point, it was identical save the fact they were in two different places.

Now Luke said "Why don't you try Folders" in another thread --- and here we are. 

This topic has been going on for a few years. As collections grow, better organization is needed, especially as franchises expand.

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rbjtech

ok - I'm not really sure what you are expecting Emby to do then.  The collections 'members' in the 'Auto Box Sets' is got from the moviedb.org - if it's not in there - then it's not an automatic created collection.

 

So you then have two choices - either manually create the collections using the GUI - OR - you can edit the 'collection.XML' file in programdata\data\collections\ system folder - both work equally well.

 

The mistake which I *think* you are making is you are trying to organise your FILESYSTEM into collections - let Emby's DATABASE make the related films/TV series into a collection.

Edited by rbjtech
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Lighthammer

Collections.xml is broke. You can't add them to a folder outside of Collections to work anymore.

I consider this a massive oversight and/or bug from the January update.

 

This isn't trying to set something new up. This is trying to adapt to something that the Emby team changed and essentially messed up how my server worked for a good number of years.

 

There is a major bug here that at least needs to be addressed and that's why TV Series appear as "Seasons" when in folder view. That's gotta get resolved one way or another.

 

The solution is a few fold:

#1.) Make it so that Folder Views has the ability to separate TV Series, Movies, Music, Pictures, etc.

#2.) Make it so that end users can physically create a category in a folder view and add media to that SPECIFIC category.

@ERB is usually good at translating this sort of thing to the programmers of who to fix/resolve it.

Edited by Lighthammer
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rbjtech

Collections.xml is broke. You can't add them to a folder outside of Collections to work anymore.

I consider this a massive oversight and/or bug from the January update.

 

This isn't trying to set something new up. This is trying to adapt to something that the Emby team changed and essentially messed up how my server worked for a good number of years.

 

..and this is the heart of your problem.  Years ago, I too had my 1000's of films all neatly categorised into file system's as I wanted to view them appearing in what was then MediaBrowser - then Emby came along and changed it so any file can link into a collection from anywhere - different file system, different nas, different TV series, different film - it doesn't matter - because it's the database that links them together - and it is SO much better for it.    So I flattened my entire collection - every film and TV series (even if related) are a single directory from the root and then used the database to link them together.  As the collection grows, you simply keep adding to the collection from your new nas for example, or a new Tv series has a spin off link into one of the characters - just simply add that new TV series to the collection if that's your intent.   No need to go moving file systems around or create symlinks anymore.

 

Yes it may take some initial time to setup if you still have it the 'old way' but once done, the new way of doing things is so much more flexible.

 

Perhaps there is a way to convert your XML files - is it worth posting one to see an example ?

Edited by rbjtech
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Lighthammer

..and this is the heart of your problem.  Years ago, I too had my 1000's of films all neatly categorised into file system's as I wanted to view them appearing in what was then MediaBrowser - then Emby came along and changed it so any file can link into a collection from anywhere - different file system, different nas, different TV series, different film - it doesn't matter - because it's the database that links them together - and it is SO much better for it.    So I flattened my entire collection - every film and TV series (even if related) are a single directory from the root and then used the database to link them together.  As the collection grows, you simply keep adding to the collection from your new nas for example, or a new Tv series has a spin off link into one of the characters - just simply add that new TV series to the collection if that's your intent.   No need to go moving file systems around or create symlinks anymore.

 

I feel like you're trying to make a case for something I've already expressed I did once upon a time and found better ways to do it.

 

To be clear, I've bluntly rearranged my library so many times now to suit best practices for Emby. Some of these best practices have come into conflict with what is logical over the years and I've adapted my library to suit that.

 

I've also, now, have gone to great length to explain the problem which is only going to become a bigger problem as libraries grow and companies build bigger and bigger franchises that one could easily claim don't belong in the same collection (collection as in the grouping method used by TMDB).

 

I found an XML that hasn't been altered yet by my changes or the updates from v4.0.3. It's attached

 

You'll note that there's literally no difference between this XML and a regular collections.xml --- the only difference is where its placed. This one is placed in Shares\Collections\ and is mapped via the library.

collection.xml

Edited by Lighthammer
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Deathsquirrel

..and this is the heart of your problem.  Years ago, I too had my 1000's of films all neatly categorised into file system's as I wanted to view them appearing in what was then MediaBrowser - then Emby came along and changed it so any file can link into a collection from anywhere - different file system, different nas, different TV series, different film - it doesn't matter - because it's the database that links them together - and it is SO much better for it.    So I flattened my entire collection - every film and TV series (even if related) are a single directory from the root and then used the database to link them together.  As the collection grows, you simply keep adding to the collection from your new nas for example, or a new Tv series has a spin off link into one of the characters - just simply add that new TV series to the collection if that's your intent.   No need to go moving file systems around or create symlinks anymore.

 

Yes it may take some initial time to setup if you still have it the 'old way' but once done, the new way of doing things is so much more flexible.

 

Perhaps there is a way to convert your XML files - is it worth posting one to see an example ?

 

You're not wrong but he's not listening. This is an oooooold discussion and you're talking to a wall on this topic ;)

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One2Go

This discussion almost borders on the same heated discussion when talking about Operating Systems and the changes that are introduced with a new version, loved by some and passionately hated by others. I lived through the heated discussion between command line diehards and the mouse and object oriented ways of doing things in a new OS.

 

Since this is about organizing and time spent I do can see the benefit of a file system if that suits your display and playback system. I do have to copy media from my NAS which collects content from various sources and then copy it to the final destination, my Media servers. After using MCM for collecting metadata and images I am done. In the case with the new direction you have to link and create collections. In a nested folder view you don't have to. I am not advocating this but some are happy with a limited way of grouping, collecting or nesting content rather then preferring massive flexibility and possibilities of arranging your content. I make the decision where I want the content to be copied to and as the administrator of the servers know what is where and how it is being navigated. Just a preferences for some of us. I have servers dedicated for Movies, TV Shows, Music and Documentaries. The UnRaid servers create the shares and all that Emby has to do is look at the shares which basically make up the libraries like movies, TV Shows or Music. Granted you get greater flexibility if you use Emby to create the structure but some of us feel satisfied with the structure on our servers, because we know where to look for specific content and are content with the way our media is grouped, gathered into directories on the servers. All that is required now display it. Since I do that in a home theater with a 10ft remote I love to use EMC because of the superior eye candy of the Throgsoft themes.

 

When developers take their product into a new direction they should give individuals the choice of staying at a version or modifying your library structure and tweaking it to new requirements and standards. How to spend that time is each ones choice. Many have expressed their regrets of being stuck in a situation after updating the server software where they now either have to spend lengthy time in rearranging or downgrading server versions which means rescanning all your libraries to get back the old data base structure. I do feel for all who are in that situation.

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rbjtech

This discussion almost borders on the same heated discussion when talking about Operating Systems and the changes that are introduced with a new version, loved by some and passionately hated by others. I lived through the heated discussion between command line diehards and the mouse and object oriented ways of doing things in a new OS.

 

Since this is about organizing and time spent I do can see the benefit of a file system if that suits your display and playback system. I do have to copy media from my NAS which collects content from various sources and then copy it to the final destination, my Media servers. After using MCM for collecting metadata and images I am done. In the case with the new direction you have to link and create collections. In a nested folder view you don't have to. I am not advocating this but some are happy with a limited way of grouping, collecting or nesting content rather then preferring massive flexibility and possibilities of arranging your content. I make the decision where I want the content to be copied to and as the administrator of the servers know what is where and how it is being navigated. Just a preferences for some of us. I have servers dedicated for Movies, TV Shows, Music and Documentaries. The UnRaid servers create the shares and all that Emby has to do is look at the shares which basically make up the libraries like movies, TV Shows or Music. Granted you get greater flexibility if you use Emby to create the structure but some of us feel satisfied with the structure on our servers, because we know where to look for specific content and are content with the way our media is grouped, gathered into directories on the servers. All that is required now display it. Since I do that in a home theater with a 10ft remote I love to use EMC because of the superior eye candy of the Throgsoft themes.

 

When developers take their product into a new direction they should give individuals the choice of staying at a version or modifying your library structure and tweaking it to new requirements and standards. How to spend that time is each ones choice. Many have expressed their regrets of being stuck in a situation after updating the server software where they now either have to spend lengthy time in rearranging or downgrading server versions which means rescanning all your libraries to get back the old data base structure. I do feel for all who are in that situation.

 

Fair comments and I guess Development decisions will never please everyone, we are all different and have opinions.  :D 

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Lighthammer

Fair comments and I guess Development decisions will never please everyone, we are all different and have opinions.  :D

 

I've always found, that as a general rule to keep stake holders happy, you try as hard as possible to keep things in that you've already completed. There's no reason to toss good code out the window even when you want to pivot into other directions. 

 

That being said, something I've been fairly vocal about is the absolute need by the developers of Emby to make sure ample time is given for major changes. That doesn't mean just pushing updates to the blog, but when something is so major that's going to change major swatches of how people interface with the app/program, it should be pushed to the client so that people are in the no. A major change like this should never be pushed without at least 3 months of lead time. I think Google demonstrates often times how to do it right. They give so much lead time and so much notice on major changes that you're almost sick of hearing about it by the time it happens; and that's not because they are telling you every waking moment, its because they give you that much lead time and regular monthly-ish notices.

 

v4.0.1 should have, minimum had push notices to admin accounts, email notices to forum members and premium account holders.

 

To be clear, I'm not suggest small bug fixes, regular security patches or similar require any notice what-so-ever, but major stuff does.

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Lighthammer
I took some time to create some mockups similar to how I did about 18 months ago describing how I feel these sorts of issues should be handled. I didn't bookmark the old post, so its no doubt buried someplace on this site.
 
 
 
Basically, it's my belief that every library created on Emby should have the ability to add sub-containers (EG Sub-Libraries) that allow certain folders to automatically be parsed as a new header within a given library not similar to how the home screen looks today.
 

EXAMPLE #1
 
From the Admin Panel, we already have the option to go to the Library and add folders (this shown mainly as a reference picture).
 
5c92bf5b1b950_Example1.png
 
 
EXAMPLE #2
 
From the Library Panel, an UI option could/should be added to allow for a secondary library to appear inside the established library. 
 
5c92c0091e28f_Example2.png
 
 
The section added (in this case "TV Series") would, by default, appear below all other items in the library. 

Order would allow you to choose in what order it appears in the library. 

Media Type would indicate would be the same as "Content Type" when adding a new library. It simply indicates what metasources it would potentially use when scrapping meta data for that section. 

(Note: I called it media type simply because that's what I recalled it being named as. I didn't update the image as I left the PSD at work and am writing this from home).
Edited by Lighthammer
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Lighthammer
EXAMPLE #3
 
Finally, if you have appropriate access, you can add items to this sub-section just like how you can in a normal collection.
 

post-4656-0-07696800-1553126948_thumb.png

 

Really, this solution simply stems from logical organization and requires very little coding to change.
 
I'm simply proposing that current container system be expanded in functionality to allow sub container customization.
 
I feel the long term solution is to build a database of franchises that could be hosted someplace as meta data through an addon; however, this solution gives a huge amount of customization to server owners that's been long time needed.
 
I believe this feature is akin to subfolders in Gmail and it's honestly just as frusterating that we haven't seen this functionality expanded as it was when it took Google 10 years to add the "hack-ney" subfolder system they have in Gmail to this day.
Edited by Lighthammer
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That being said, something I've been fairly vocal about is the absolute need by the developers of Emby to make sure ample time is given for major changes.

 

Hi.  As was discussed in a similar thread recently in the EMC forum, this change was actually made - and discussed extensively - years ago.  Other improvements and advancements finally forced us to completely enforce it but we have stated for a long time that the old way was not really supported anymore. 

 

We're sorry this caught you off-guard but this is not something that just happened overnight.

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Lighthammer

Hi.  As was discussed in a similar thread recently in the EMC forum, this change was actually made - and discussed extensively - years ago.  Other improvements and advancements finally forced us to completely enforce it but we have stated for a long time that the old way was not really supported anymore. 

 

We're sorry this caught you off-guard but this is not something that just happened overnight.

Hey ERB,

 

I have a completely different thread where I discussed those specific points about the communication issues of January's patch. I purposely started this thread to discuss the bugs found in trying to do it a different way and the bugs I've also hit in trying to do so; as well as proposed changes that you yourself were behind in the past. I decided to largely start a new thread on the topic because I was mostly mad in that thread and while I'm still very bitter over communication that didn't manage to make its way to me, that's not what this thread is about.

 

Expressing the issues that got me here is largely to give other community members participating in this thread perspective of where I am on this topic and how I got here. I'm likely to make some threads next week discussing how I propose to deal with stake holders better in the future (IE Communication) as well as rehashing the growing need for better user management.

 

That being said, could you take some time and review the points that this thread discussed I pointed out?

Edited by Lighthammer
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unless I'm missing the point - you can add both movies and series to a collection - this works perfectly fine from a normal 'add to collection' in the GUI ?

 

My Star Wars Collection as an example (not sure why the screen looks like that, but you get the idea) -

 

 

5c915234d34f4_collections.png

 

5c9153410eb7e_collections2.png

 

Yea you're right, but if you look at the example image i quoted, he also has next up in there as well.

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