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Is Emby Roku team going to update client look/feel?


butch79

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We are working on it.

 

Actions speak louder than words.

 

There is no recruitment of others to help? I haven't heard so much as a peep.

 

I <3 the roku, but that is obvious. How far is your code along? Can you give us any details other than "we are working on it?". It would be nice if there was open dialog. The whole project is open source, except the conversations. One would imagine that if it was really being worked on that others would know about it. The ones designing it would share information about what was happening. I share all my information and code with others.

 

Do you need help @@ebr? Am I just a mushroom? Fed shit and kept in the dark? It would be nice to know. It would be nice if you could reach beyond the regular "its in the works" comment, and you could open up and let us know how far along it is. Is it anywhere close to ready? Is it just being conceptualized? Can others contribute to the effort? All I am asking for is honesty, when all I get is cold stares. You feel me? Yeah.. you do. :)

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CBers

Let's hope Blue Neon Night is adopted as the official Roku app.

 

No point re-inventing the wheel, again ;)

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He'd be a magic psychedelic mushroom

 

5801379b5da5e_trippyy2.jpg

Haw.. def prefer psilocybin over mescaline. No need to smoke it unless you top your bowl of weed with it, like people do with hash. Just chew it up, and prepare to take flight. No stewardesses or in-flight movies required.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

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Let's hope Blue Neon Night is adopted as the official Roku app.

 

No point re-inventing the wheel, again ;)

 

The SDK and application architectures are new and different, so while both apps are perfectly fine today, in terms of going into the future, neither will be suitable for new application development.

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The SDK and application architectures are new and different, so while both apps are perfectly fine today, in terms of going into the future, neither will be suitable for new application development.

 

I agree. The present app is using what roku calls sdk1. It makes use of templated interfaces using "ro" in front of them. The entire app presently is built using these pre-made templates which the app populates with data. With sdk2 (sgnode,scene-graph) the game changes. It is now up to the developer to create the template, and populate it too. This allows much more freedom, but it also means every screen template used must be hand designed entirely in sg-node xml. Once the screen templates are designed, the easy part happens again and you just populate data into the template to render.

 

This makes it more difficult than just using the sdk1 and throwing data at the screen. You must design the entire UI too. This will of course take time as you first have to become versed in how sdk2 operates, learn the functions, and start to understand the workflow. I agree it isn't something as easy as everyone probably thinks it is. I would like to contribute to this, but I would need a new device which presently I cannot afford. So presently I can help with the 720p UI the roku3 supports. To help with the design of the 1080p UI I would need a new roku ultra device. So if any kind individuals are reading this thread and are independently wealthy this poor soul could use some love.. lol.. Feel free to message me on these forums too. I read all and reply to all messages. Thanks :)

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In order to compete in the market in which we now play it is necessary for us to keep some things a little closer to the vest.  I know that this may rub some of our long-time supporters a bit of the wrong way but it really is the only way for us to be able to continue to bring you the best possible product.


 


Right now, this re-design is a small private project.  We hope to have something out within the next several weeks though.  The store process with Roku is actually going to limit us a bit here which probably means our first offering will have some limited (but hopefully all basic) functionality.  At such time that we feel we are ready to take on additional helping hands we will definitely let you know.


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farside847

I agree. The present app is using what roku calls sdk1. It makes use of templated interfaces using "ro" in front of them. The entire app presently is built using these pre-made templates which the app populates with data. With sdk2 (sgnode,scene-graph) the game changes. It is now up to the developer to create the template, and populate it too. This allows much more freedom, but it also means every screen template used must be hand designed entirely in sg-node xml. Once the screen templates are designed, the easy part happens again and you just populate data into the template to render.

 

This makes it more difficult than just using the sdk1 and throwing data at the screen. You must design the entire UI too. This will of course take time as you first have to become versed in how sdk2 operates, learn the functions, and start to understand the workflow. I agree it isn't something as easy as everyone probably thinks it is. I would like to contribute to this, but I would need a new device which presently I cannot afford. So presently I can help with the 720p UI the roku3 supports. To help with the design of the 1080p UI I would need a new roku ultra device. So if any kind individuals are reading this thread and are independently wealthy this poor soul could use some love.. lol.. Feel free to message me on these forums too. I read all and reply to all messages. Thanks :)

 

Not wealthy, but happy to help scrape some cash and get devices in the hands of developers.  Ive done it before when the roku4 came out.

 

I would love to see a new app that has the latest interface options like:

 - like grid view for live tv

 - DVR management on the roku

 - manage recordings

 - set up season pass

 - tv show search

 - more direct play/stream capabilities (like blue neon)

 - etcc

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mediacowboy

@@farside847, I remember you helping with the Roku 4. I even donated. Maybe if @@speechles gave us what model he would like we could do it again?

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In order to compete in the market in which we now play it is necessary for us to keep some things a little closer to the vest.  I know that this may rub some of our long-time supporters a bit of the wrong way but it really is the only way for us to be able to continue to bring you the best possible product.

 

Right now, this re-design is a small private project.  We hope to have something out within the next several weeks though.  The store process with Roku is actually going to limit us a bit here which probably means our first offering will have some limited (but hopefully all basic) functionality.  At such time that we feel we are ready to take on additional helping hands we will definitely let you know.

 

 

For nowTV users will there continue to be a zip-file? This is where plex left nowTV users behind. They also keep their roku source code as an encrypted .pkg you have to download only onto a roku device. It is clear why plex did this which is to keep emby and others from using their source. In the end what plex did was shoot themselves in the foot with their app. They closed off any opportunity they had.

 

Emby will keep this all open source? I don't want to leave any users behind and close off the source. That would be a very sad day.

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butch79

What are you guys using for developement on this? Can others be added to the team? I think there are some of us on here that would be interested in helping with this part of the project.

 

Have you all ever looked at Marmalade or Visual Studio to do the development for the Roku with? https://www.madewithmarmalade.com/roku

http://www.weareratio.com/blog/roku_sdk_2/

 

 

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Marmalade has been around for so long. Is it even up to date with the new sdk? 

 

Using visual studio as a text editor for brightscript is fine, but if they're trying to provide some kind of development abstraction then I would stay away. having another layer on top of the roku SDK just makes it more difficult to troubleshoot, because when there is a problem it's hard to determine who is responsible. But if you're just talking about a text editor for brs and xml, it might be nice.

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@@farside847, I remember you helping with the Roku 4. I even donated. Maybe if @@speechles gave us what model he would like we could do it again?

 

That was very kind of you guys. I do appreciate you offering to help. If it could be done the same way that would be awesome. Right now development is stuck in 720p UI. The only devices which have a 1080p UI are the premier+ and ultra. The only difference the ultra allows is SP-DIF out and a "roku locate" button on the top which makes the remote beep so you can find it. I wouldn't need all the ultra has to help develop on a 1080p UI. So whatever you guys feel is appropriate is fine with me. I dont want to charge users for the app. I never want to. So my efforts will always be free of charge. This is why it is sort of embarassing to ask others to provide me a new roku. I normally wouldn't ask, but I have rung all I can out of the present roku app and my roku3. There isnt much functionality the app is missing now. It is time to move onto the next app. To do so I just need help. :)

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What are you guys using for developement on this? Can others be added to the team? I think there are some of us on here that would be interested in helping with this part of the project.

 

Have you all ever looked at Marmalade or Visual Studio to do the development for the Roku with? https://www.madewithmarmalade.com/roku

http://www.weareratio.com/blog/roku_sdk_2/

 

I actually just use notepad. If I need line numbers to debug with I use conTEXT. Then telnet to see through the roku's eyes to debug. It isnt really required you set up a full IDE to work with.

 

http://ereader.kiczek.com/emby-roku-blueneonnight.zip

 

These are the sources to my build. Feel free to have a peek inside and look them over. If you see places where I've made mistakes please let me know. Is there a roku team? Should we start a membership drive? I am sure others are interested too.

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Waldonnis

For nowTV users will there continue to be a zip-file? This is where plex left nowTV users behind. They also keep their roku source code as an encrypted .pkg you have to download only onto a roku device. It is clear why plex did this which is to keep emby and others from using their source. In the end what plex did was shoot themselves in the foot with their app. They closed off any opportunity they had.

 

NowTV is a special case. They use Roku's platform and hardware, but choose not to use Roku's other infrastructure (ad system, billing, store, etc.) for their own business purposes.  Realistically, this allows Sky to control content-related access better and push their own partnerships' ads and such (and keeps the prices of the units down), but it comes at a price for the consumer that's reflected in cases like this (access to channels/services outside of their ecosystem).  As long as the NowTV boxes allow sideloading/developer access and Sky keeps their firmware reasonably updated, I don't see any issues with sideloading the channel (so long as Emby's is provided as a zip somehow).  It's not ideal, but at least it should be possible.

 

Do they even have a channel store for those?  If so, it may be worth looking into what it takes to offer channels there....if they allow that at all (doubtful, but who knows). I can't seem to find any links for developers to use on their site, but being an ocean away from their service area, any such areas of their site may not even show up for me.

 

I know you know this stuff, speechles, but it's worth repeating in case other NowTV folks are curious why sideloading is necessary  :)

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Waldonnis

Got sidetracked and forgot something...

 

The UI design in this case is the easy part, actually.  It's the under-the-hood changes that are significantly more complicated.  I managed to make proof-of-concept templates for every screen in the current channel within an hour, but a LOT of the bits to fetch the info for and populate the screens really need some rather large changes to fit into the newer requirements.  The content metadata node alone is a big change, and may or may not need to be extended to include some info that the current Emby channel shows to end users.  Shortcuts can be taken, of course, like only assigning the necessary fields of the metadata node for playback and handling the rest of the data outside, but that comes at the cost of writing custom code to populate grids and other screen elements.

 

It's complicated and, unlike other platforms, Roku can't share some of the same common code that the other apps use, so it takes more work.  Also, developing and debugging on Rokus is, frankly, one of the most frustrating and strangest platforms I've ever worked on.  One syntax flub and you have a good chance of the box rebooting and you not knowing why it happened.  Don't get me started on the inaccurate and incomplete API documentation either.  I think I've learned more about the API functions by dumping their built-in libraries and screwing around in the "debugger" than from the docs.  The content metadata node (which is THE node in SG) isn't even documented....

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pclausen

Glad to hear there is some active development on "roku 2.0".  I too would be happy to contribute towards hardware for devs just like I did on the last go round.

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farside847

Very cool. I am happy to set this up again to help raise cash and get some Ultra's into the hands of dev's.

 

I am happy that the dev's have continued to support the roku platform, and the app still happily humms along without outage. And I know resources and time are precious. I just do not know the best way to prioritize this re-vamp against all of the other activity that is done on Emby. How can we show our support in the most positive way possible? I wonder if this is the *right* way to go about trying to promote the Roku app. Is there a better way to assure new apps/capabilities without guilting the dev's into it? :) I am embarrassed to say it, but we did this once before and the results were minor.

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NowTV is a special case. They use Roku's platform and hardware, but choose not to use Roku's other infrastructure (ad system, billing, store, etc.) for their own business purposes. Realistically, this allows Sky to control content-related access better and push their own partnerships' ads and such (and keeps the prices of the units down), but it comes at a price for the consumer that's reflected in cases like this (access to channels/services outside of their ecosystem). As long as the NowTV boxes allow sideloading/developer access and Sky keeps their firmware reasonably updated, I don't see any issues with sideloading the channel (so long as Emby's is provided as a zip somehow). It's not ideal, but at least it should be possible.

 

Do they even have a channel store for those? If so, it may be worth looking into what it takes to offer channels there....if they allow that at all (doubtful, but who knows). I can't seem to find any links for developers to use on their site, but being an ocean away from their service area, any such areas of their site may not even show up for me.

 

I know you know this stuff, speechles, but it's worth repeating in case other NowTV folks are curious why sideloading is necessary :)

Sky has denied plex in the app store. It would be near impossible to sneak emby past them. They have to keep sideloading open to support development of apps for their store or they would close that off too.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

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Very cool. I am happy to set this up again to help raise cash and get some Ultra's into the hands of dev's.

 

I am happy that the dev's have continued to support the roku platform, and the app still happily humms along without outage. And I know resources and time are precious. I just do not know the best way to prioritize this re-vamp against all of the other activity that is done on Emby. How can we show our support in the most positive way possible? I wonder if this is the *right* way to go about trying to promote the Roku app. Is there a better way to assure new apps/capabilities without guilting the dev's into it? :) I am embarrassed to say it, but we did this once before and the results were minor.

I understand the once bitten, twice shy. I would not just sit on the device. It would be actively used as a development tool. Same way I treat my roku3. For the last year Ive provided constant updates to my app as it is the priority to me. This is the difference. I can focus solely on one device where emby developers must spread their focus. I cant promise a timeline yet, or much else. I can only say, between you, me and the trees that it would help me to create a better app. Edited by speechles
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butch79

Speechles, I want to say thank for all the development you have done. This is truly great.

 

I would like to ask a few questions if you are OK with it. Are you the lone developer on this project? Or are there others? How many people would you say are actively working the Roku 2.0 Emby client update? How can we help you with this project?

 

Just to put it out there, would it not be a good idea to move to something beyond notepad and use a common programming system like Visual Studio or MadewithMarmalade? This way others could work on the Roku 2.0 project together. Other perks would include a standard code set to use for other devices like Android, IOS, etc.

 

I ask all this only as I LOVE Emby and want to see it succeed. I also love the Roku concept and want to see it succeed completely as well.

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I didnt do all the development. Lets square away who to thank. First off thank gcw07(grant) and tikuf for their original foray into a complete custom from scratch roku client. This was the first MB for roku client. This wasnt written in a modular way that allowed easy feature addition. So it was alot of code reused in several spots.

 

The second app was written by plex. Their source code for the original app was completely open source under gpl. So it was easier to adapt their skeleton to fit emby skin over. Luke adapted this code to work with emby. He and several other contributors got it up to the point you see now.

 

The blue neon app takes the standard app and fills in the blanks so to speak. I use this client on an everyday basis, so missing functionality was wished for. I even made threads asking for features before I knew brightscript fully. I just started tinkering with the app in late 2014. Keeping my app to myself for the first 6 months. I kept up providing these changes as pull requests you can see on github, as well as all the other contributors.

 

With the blue neon app I am the sole developer. Mainly so it can be community driven. Since I control the app I can add as many features and options as needed. This started out as a hobby just to fill in idle time and learn about the roku. Now its turned into sort of an obsession adding all sorts of bells and whistles. When I see some part that could be better I can fix it. So you see the last year+ of my tinkering in the blue neon app. If you exit the app using back there is an exit dialog that stays for 3.5 seconds onscreen thanking contributors to the app.

 

With roku coding, adding layers of extra things tends to dillute the focus of what you are doing. With notepad I have maybe 15 or 20 notepad windows open. Each with diff parts of the app so I can flip through and trace through the app as if it is running in my head. This is how Ive always programmed.

 

Having all that extra stuff adds distraction to me. Also, Ive never used either so I cant speak to it really. All you really need is a text editor that supports copy/paste and a telnet window. The roku reminds me of homebrew on the gameboy advance. It was an entirely similar experience flashing over data to the gameboy to test. Gameboy had emulators to test on though. I wish roku had an emulator to run code on and test with.

 

There is no way to share code or port the ios or android apps. To suggest it be written entirely in c is hard to swallow for an open source app. Debugging nightmare that would be. We can already all work together on github. Thats what has been happening in all the other apps. Anyone can contribute, novice or expert. There is no experience required.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Edited by speechles
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farside847

This might be a controversial question, but please know that I ask withe the upmost respect for everything involved.

 

Can the development on the new roku app be done in harmony with the blue neon app? If forces are combined with a single goal and consistent set of milestones we can increase the level of enhancement and remove the duplication of work.

 

Continuing to allow both efforts to progress in parallel seems wasteful and inefficient. If an agile model is adopted individual tasks can be taken by any available resource and then merged back into the code repository when completed. This way work can be divided and completed quickly and efficiently.

 

I am happy to help with the scope definition. organization, prioritization, and execution planning/management. But at the same time I realize that this app development is no one's 'real job' and I don't want to bog down the team with extra overhead and politics. If it will help, I am happy to jump in.

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