split 6 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 I have recently cut cable and i am left with a fairly old HTPC running Windows and Emby Theater. I also have Netflix, Hulu and a bunch of other apps installed to get AMC, History, etc shows that i still have access to with my current internet package (the cable stb sits in a closet somewhere). Theater is currently the only thing that works well as everything else is just a group of disconnected apps that dont at all work with my old IR remote. So rather than dump money into a htpc-based system i am looking at a streaming box that could unify all these channels for me into a single interface. At the top of my list is what i think are the obvious contenders: Fire TV and Roku 3 or 4. I dont have a 4K-capable TV, but considering this is a once-off investment compared to my old cable bill i might opt to future proof a little, edging the Roku4 over the Roku3. I read somewhere that the Fire TV doesnt do well with searching content across channels or allowing you to arrange channels on the main screen. This seems to be mostly pre-2016 articles that points this out, so i dont know if this has been improved. Both have similar hardware specs, both have the apps that im most interested in (Netflix, Prime Video, Emby, HBO), Im a big Amazon fan, so overall i think i have a slight bias towards it, but i was curious to see if anyone has tips on which device they prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjktg99 34 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 I think the Roku is the best all around. Especially if you have kids. I dont have a fire tv, but my impressions of it are that its steers a little too proprietary for my liking. If you are wanting an android solution I would recommend a Shield TV but I dont think you can get prime video on it. Otherwise I would stick with the Roku. I have it, one at a friends house and it works well. The only issue I have is audio, I have to use a receiver for DTS. Otherwise, DD and AAC work just fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legallink 187 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 So, it depends on what your driving factors are. In my world there are a couple of factors (1) WAF (wife approval factor); (2) Content Accessibility; and (3) ease of setup/maintenance The Roku has the most content available because they are not in competition with the other content providers and they have been around the longest. You'll get amazon, Netflix, hulu, but not iTunes (without some work arounds). On the whole, a solid player, but the interface is not the prettiest, so the WAF goes down significantly. The update to the OS when they brought on the Roku 4 killed it for us in our house and we went looking somewhere else while they took 2 - 3 months to fix it. However, barring that, it was easy to use. As far as content accessibility, aside from having all the apps it supports the least amount of different types of streams (so transcoding is almost always required unless everything is converted for Roku specific.). It's tough to get surround sound on the Roku from Emby (but is fine from Netflix) and in general often has small hiccups in streaming (emphasis on small - we had/have consistent hiccups with Hulu and Netflix....small blips in stream and/or sound every once in a while). You won't get cross channel content search on the Roku that I am aware of. The remote is pretty resilient, just make sure you get the one that is RF and not IR (aka the Roku 4 and possibly the Roku 3 but not the Roku 2 - which is the 3 without RF), however, we didn't like the pre-configured buttons. The FireTV, most people on this forum love it (I don't have it), but I've heard it's pretty, which makes WAF go up, and relatively easy to use. You have LiveTV from Emby if you use that. Maintenance as far as I am aware is pretty straight forward, and if you are a bit technical you can side load apps. You do have a restriction on some content if you can't sideload, but I think for the most part it is minimal (unless you have Apple restricted content - see below). I'm not as familiar with the remote, but I've heard good things. We moved to the Apple TV, which won the WAF factors hands down over the Roku (and from a removed perspective the Fire TV). For us, content works well, as I am slowly trying to steer my wife away from Apple's proprietary formats, but there is residual and Emby serves up everything that isn't Apple proprietary. However, we miss the amount of content that was available on the Roku. We aren't/weren't huge Amazon Prime Music/Video fans, mostly because of presentation, not content (although presentation gets worked around when we find something we like as we just airplay it.). There is no Live TV, so we airplay that as well from our IOS devices, but is always better native. Remote won hands down as well over the above two. I actually preferred the more analog like function of the Roku remote (without the app specific buttons), but the Siri search is something that I am liking more than I thought I would, and I hope that it will expand into a publicly usable API (Emby doesn't use it yet, but it searches Netflix, Apple Store, can't remember if it searches HBO). The touch screen portion of the remote is fine, wife loves it, oddly I don't, but I'm fine with it. In my opinion, the 4k push is over hyped, and there is very little content in 4k and even less user demand. When 4k comes out for real, I would assume that the Roku will probably struggle with it, as my experience is the Roku is pretty underpowered. That being said, I think all the boxes are relatively resilient and do their job. If you are Amazon fans, the FireTV might be great, but I have found their presentation of content to be an afterthought, and less a priority like Netflix....although with them providing it as a separate subscription, that might change. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
split 6 Posted April 26, 2016 Author Share Posted April 26, 2016 Thanks for the feedback - very insightful. The allure of the Roku was really the cross-channel search, and that it doesnt have a content bias. Truth be told i would probably spend majority of time in Netflix or Prime Video, so the vast amount of additional content on Roku I would probably never scratch the surface on. If it indeed doesnt have cross-channel search outside of showing me the cheapest option between the likes of Netflix/Prime/etc. then it really removes the primary benefactor imo, especially considering it is the more expensive device, I didnt think that the UI would be a WAF as long as its easy to navigate, but the UI is supremely dated. In contrast Fire TV does look so modern. From the more recent product reviews I've seen today it has a few UI annoyances like the free prime option for a movie being tucked away at the back behind the purchase options, and the search being clunky, but then it has Alexa that seemingly could really help cut through that. I might just go with the Fire TV and hope that Amazon takes notice and correct some of the UI/UX subtleties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legallink 187 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 My only beef with Prime/Amazon is that even when you have prime, when you search, they are always making to look for the sale, so they are always suggesting things to buy/rent. I have often found it difficult to determine what is a "prime video" and what is a suggestion that I have to buy/rent it. I don't really like that, but they have decent content. And yes, search is very clunky, which is why we only go there when we know what we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
split 6 Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 Hello, i ended up going to Best Buy and picked up the Roku4 to test (they had a discount running). The plan was to test it for a couple of days, then order the Fire TV and do the same, then return the one i liked least. Wife & kids immediately took to it. So much so that im not even going to bother with the Fire TV. You were right, the cross-channel search is not what i anticipated it to be as it only covers major channels like Netflix, Hulu, Prime, and a couple others. But, despite some of the channels having really outdated interfaces (looking at you, Emby!!) i would say this device has not disappointed me one bit. Thanks for your advice and feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcook 265 Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Have EMBY setup in our house along with Netflix and we have Roku3 in the family room as well as 2 bedrooms, and it works awesome, the wife and kids love it as its so easy to use, and very similar to how Netflix works. I also access EMBY using my XBOX One via the browser, but really wish they made a proper Xbox and Playstation App For easy of use, ROKU3 is fantastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legallink 187 Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 (edited) If they like the Roku, I think you might be suprised at the response from the Fire TV and the Apple TV. We had a Roku for a few years, wife liked it a lot. She won't go back from the Apple TV even though there is more content available. She likes the UI that much. I guess if they don't know, you are good to go. However, I dearly miss private listening. Edited May 13, 2016 by legallink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
im85288 1493 Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Have to agree here in that if you like things to look good the Apple TV wins hands down. The Emby app for roku is very outdated with regards looks and imho needs to be rebuilt from scratch. Fire TV would be in second position for me. Another reason to have roku in last place is that you cannot install Kodi on it. Both the Apple TV and fire tv allow Kodi to be installed which then of course brings with it all the features of Kodi (Live tv etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Cameron 40 Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Without a second thought, the Roku has my top pick. Has every streaming service except iTunes. The best remote, dependable, inexpensive, regular updates, largest app selection, 4K streaming (Roku 4) and much much more. A lot of these other streaming boxes try to be more then a media streamer or focus their own content on you front and center. Roku not owning there own streaming service (like apple and amazon) really helps keep the roku grounded as a box and allows them to focus on being a streaming media box that just works and does not favor any one service. However i must agree with @@im85288 about the emby client being VERY outdated. It is indeed in need of a complete redesign upgrade. I have not used it in ages due to its prehistoric experience. Plex has already done this with their client on the Roku and is now VERY modern and functional. However, I think the emby team is already working on a new modern Roku client from what i read here. Just my 2 cents for whats its worth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcook 265 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Have to agree here in that if you like things to look good the Apple TV wins hands down. The Emby app for roku is very outdated with regards looks and imho needs to be rebuilt from scratch. Fire TV would be in second position for me. Another reason to have roku in last place is that you cannot install Kodi on it. Both the Apple TV and fire tv allow Kodi to be installed which then of course brings with it all the features of Kodi (Live tv etc) I disagree that the emby app is outdated and needs to be rebuilt, it works very well, and to me looks and operates very similar to netflix. What makes you think it is outdated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
im85288 1493 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 I disagree that the emby app is outdated and needs to be rebuilt, it works very well, and to me looks and operates very similar to netflix. What makes you think it is outdated? Not just my opinion: http://www.engadget.com/2015/02/24/plex-roku-channel-redesign/ But at the end of the day if your happy with how it looks and works now that's all that really counts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speechles 1917 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) Haw... but @@im85288 is right. It is "outdated". Now this doesn't mean it isnt one of the best functionality wise. It was "the best" waay back when everybody was just beginning to foray into this field. It was one of the better choices thats why everyone has one even if its in a closet. But you, me, and the trees knows the pace of technology. The moment they release something new, something else comes along and does better. Its the race to beat the horse to death and drive the other companies into irrelevance. What roku has going for it is its independent spirit. It isn't tied to any one ecosystem. It isn't driving you towards pay endpoints when free ones exist. Roku is actually quite upfront about showing free titles too when premium ones for the exact same title exist. So i would say of any roku has the best "potential" to become better, but presently is more function over looks. It also has the app catalog other devices are envious of. This makes it attractive because you dont need emby plugins for any apps with a roku. You go to the native apps for each on the roku. I didnt want people to lose hope that their roku days were numbered. So i started my own "emby roku" fork, and started the "blue neon" app which was meant to be a "stop-gap". It was not meant to last as long as it has. But in lasting that long there are features in it few other clients have. So if you can look beyond the unoptimized UI it uses and look instead into the functionality and such the roku isnt a pig. Even if just used for emby it isn't that bad. People tend to make remarks like that because its been awhile since the roku was officially updated, and people have seen @@im85288's custom screen code years ago and been very impressed. I was too, until I saw the speed impact those interfaces had when rendering. The juice wasn't worth the squeeze then. It was difficult to build quality. But.. now that scene graph API is able to render xml objects and do it swiftly it offers now what it should've then. Eventually we will get there and have the pretty face. It just takes time to get there. Lots of time. People familiar with brightscript are a plus as well. Edited May 17, 2016 by speechles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saajan4u 79 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 hands down.. roku.. i've found fire tv is a bit sketchy @times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epayson85 72 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Unless the roku emby app has gotten some kind of an update it is absolutely outdated. Any of you saying roku is better hands down have you even used the other boxes? The roku looks awful compared to other choices out there. I went with the roku first, but it is collecting dust now, not even connected to a tv. Nexus players / AFTV through out my house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_slayer 103 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Shield is the best. Comes with private listening built in to remote as well as the gamepad (both rechargeable), google cast built in, 23.976 playback, lossless audio, 2.4 or 5GHz wifi, ethernet, gamestream SPMC is well tailored to the shield and works nicely alongside the fantastic Emby plugin for Kodi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epayson85 72 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Shield is the best. Comes with private listening built in to remote as well as the gamepad (both rechargeable), google cast built in, 23.976 playback, lossless audio, 2.4 or 5GHz wifi, ethernet, gamestream SPMC is well tailored to the shield and works nicely alongside the fantastic Emby plugin for Kodi I will keep my $250 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_slayer 103 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Got mine for $150 with the remote. HTPCs used to cost much more and provided less functionality. Just depends on preferences. I used a roku for a few hours, it was painfully slow and I'd never recommend it. That was the first gen, could be much better now. Family has first gen ftv and it's okay for transcode client, nexus player is better for them since Google cast is better integrated and they don't have prime anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epayson85 72 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 My aftv and Nexus almost never transcode but I keep almost no pure Blu ray rips either. However I do have a 1080p rip of the force awakens with 7.1 HD audio and it plays perfectly no transcoding. Also I don't know what you are talking about with htpc with less functionality than the the shield. There is absolutely nothing the shield can do that the PC can't. That's just crazy talk. Plus the user interface for PC is much better than the shield when it comes to Emby. Whether you use WMC or theater. You can build a great htpc nuc system for less than $200 that can play any file, any codec, and even emulate GameCube games but I have gone that route, don't wanna spend that much for every Tv. I have never seen the shield for that cheap especially not with their $50 remote! That you have to add on! The shield is a great media player don't get me wrong... it's just over priced when you can spend the same or less and get something better... or spend half as much and get something that's still great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_slayer 103 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Private listening, Google cast, HDMI-CEC, integrated streaming services. HTPCs lack several useful features and always have unless you go out of your way to shoehorn them in, they are no longer good bang for the buck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14910 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 especially not with their $50 remote! That you have to add on! Just FYI - the latest update to the Shield OS implemented HDMI-CEC meaning you no longer need the remote (which is next to useless anyway with no play/pause button ). The FTV has always worked with CEC but I've never found a button that properly maps to "menu". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epayson85 72 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Just FYI - the latest update to the Shield OS implemented HDMI-CEC meaning you no longer need the remote (which is next to useless anyway with no play/pause button ). The FTV has always worked with CEC but I've never found a button that properly maps to "menu". Wait what? Lol there is no play / pause button on the remote? Thats hilarious. I can say I haven't had much luck with CEC. I brought a fire TV stick on vacation and forgot the remote lol and the CEC was usable but not perfect. The best for these small boxes remote is by far Amazon's at least for ease of use due to having extra buttons... that is once they upgraded the firmware to stop the constant disconnects. None of these boxes are perfect lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebr 14910 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Actually, the best remote on the market for these types of boxes, hands down, is the Apple TV 4. It has a touch pad and even has volume control buttons that "just work" - even with my receiver. But, you have to buy into the Apple ecosystem really to choose that as your device. For the shield and Fire I use my Harmony and it works quite well (via CEC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epayson85 72 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Private listening, Google cast, HDMI-CEC, integrated streaming services. HTPCs lack several useful features and always have unless you go out of your way to shoehorn them in, they are no longer good bang for the buck What? Google cast... there is an add in for WMC... don't know why you would though since typically you cast from your computer not the other way around... you know because everything is available on the PC you don't need to cast. Private listening - BT headphones... don't even need a wire to the remote. I use to have this setup in my bedroom. Integrated streaming service... windows 8.1 / 10 apps plus relaunch for WMC will launch any website as an app. Hdmi-cec - you can do it but costs as much as ur nvidia remote lol u can get a much better universal remote for a lot less that will control the TV and PC. I'm sorry man but htpc always wins, hands down. With intels SOCs / Nucs they destroy the shield. Again Emby on PC runs better and looks wayyy better. hopefully theater rolls out to everything though in the future. If Of want something that is quick and easy to setup... sure go with the shield but at their current price point I wouldn't put that on every Tv in the house. I also don't want to wait until black Friday so I can afford them. My main point is nvidia should lower their price. What they are charging for their hardware is ridiculous when you can buy better hardware for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epayson85 72 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Actually, the best remote on the market for these types of boxes, hands down, is the Apple TV 4. It has a touch pad and even has volume control buttons that "just work" - even with my receiver. But, you have to buy into the Apple ecosystem really to choose that as your device. For the shield and Fire I use my Harmony and it works quite well (via CEC). Yea no one will ever convince me to go to Apple lol. That does sound pretty awesome though. How is the Emby app coming for the Apple TV though? The last I looked live TV isn't up and running yet? I have a harmony 900 that I love that controls my htpc. I don't see the need for it on the other units just because I don't use them as often. When I buy a new house next year I plan on getting the newest insanely expensive Harmony's but that's so it can also control all my smart devices... someday haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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